Kommentare

Kommentar von 231079

Parry rating is simply NOT a place to budget threat stats. Therefore this trinket is simply inferior to the lower level Valor Medal of the First War.

Kommentar von birrd

Comparison of the avoidance trinkets currently available in Wrath.

On-use effects are not part of this comparison.
Diminishing returns are not factored in.
There are technical differences in dodging, parrying or being missed but I'm leaving that out and only considering the avoidance gains provided by these stats.

Seal of the Pantheon
65 Defense Rating (@ 80) = 13.22 Defense Skill = 0.529% Dodge/Parry/Be Missed/Block
Total effect 1.586% Avoidance, 0.529% Block, and -0.529% crit chance reduction

Valor Medal of the First War
84 Dodge Rating (@ 80) = 2.13% Dodge
Total effect 2.13% Avoidance

Repelling Charge
84 Defense Rating (@ 80) = 17.08 Defense Skill = 0.683% Dodge/Parry/Be Missed/Block
Total effect 2.050% Avoidance, 0.683% Block and -683% crit chance reduction

Rune of Repulsion
95 Parry Rating (@ 80) = 1.93% Parry
Total effect 1.93% Avoidance

Kommentar von 272196

This thing is made for DK tanks, nuff said.

Kommentar von 255352

Actually with diminishing returns gear with Parry is much more attractive. If you keep stacking Dodge you will bury yourself in DR, and you would gain much more benefit of spreading out your avoidance among Defense, Dodge, and Parry (And Block is good too!)

This is the exact opposite of true. Which means, for those playing along at home, that it is FALSE.

Parry and dodge don't have the same DR ceiling. DR's diminish toward an asymptote, or ceiling. Each point of rating gives you progressively less as you approach that point, which you will never reach. In most instances, talented dodge or parry does not count for the DR calculation.

The flaw here is that while no one has fixed exact numbers for a ceiling for miss (which is a crucial number to accurately calculate the ideal balance between stacking defense and dodge, as defense gives +miss/dodge/parry) we HAVE calculated the ceiling for parry and dodge. I believe dodge diminishes to around 88%, whereas parry diminishes to either 44% or 47%, although the exact figures are not of paramount importance here. This means you can effectively stack dodge nearly twice as long as you can stack parry. It also means that parry gets more expensive per rating point much, much faster than dodge.

TL;DR: if equal ilevel, prefer gear that stacks defense rating and dodge rating. Thus this trinket is far from ideal for ANYONE, as by the time you get it you're probably well up the parry DR scale inadvertently. Although the ideal ratio hasn't been pinpointed due to uncertainty regarding the number toward which miss diminishes, research on tankspot suggests that you want somewhere between a 2:1 and 3:2 defense rating:dodge rating ratio.

And stop spreading misinformation.

EDIT: spelling corrected.
EDIT2: New info! Testing by Whitetooth posted on tankspot seems to confirm 16% miss ceiling. This puts the ideal ratio at close to 3:2 defense:dodge than 2:1. Either way, it remains true that you'll see a lower avoidance return from each rating point if you stack parry unless the item is way, way better than what you're currently using.

Kommentar von 79477

This thread has far too little math in it; whether or not this item is worthwhile depends heavily on various constants. I'm a DK tank; 379 dodge with Valor Medal on, 494 parry with this on.

According to RatingBuster (which figures in DR), by equipping Rune of Repulsion I get 1.16% parry, and by equipping Valor Medal I gain 1.63% dodge.

Proccing the Valor Medal I gain 4.97% dodge, with the Rune giving 4.06% parry. They're on the same 2 minute CD, so clearly the Valor Medal is better for DK's (as has been guessed). The 0.91% avoidance difference for 20 seconds / 2 minutes is at most 0.15% effective passive avoidance. The Valor Medal is then (1.63%+c*0.15%)/(1.16%) better than this, where c depends on how often you use your on use effect. That is, the Valor Medal is between 53% and 41% better than this for me as a DK.

Taking off all of my Parry gear, I go down to 284 rating with this equipped, I gain 4.86% parry on proc and 1.4% parry passively, continuing to make it worse. I would be surprised if this were better for warriors or pallies than the Valor Medal. Using me in this gear as a guess for what Pally and Warrior mitigation differences would be (since they instead use Block and don't convert Str->Parry), I'd estimate the Valor Medal is (1.63%+c*0.02%)/(1.4%). That is, the Valor Medal is between 18% and 16% better for Warriors and Pallies (estimated).

Now I'll compare it to Defender's Code (which I also happen to have; I've been lucky on trinkets). With Defender's Code on I'm at 28935 armor, and by equipping it I go from 64.84% to 65.51% reduction. The passive parry on this is always active and amounts to a reduction of exactly 1.16% physical damage hitting me. The armor only works on attacks that don't get dodged, missed, or parried. With BoSanc up, I have about a 65% chance to dodge/parry/miss an attack. An attack that would hit for 10000 gets reduced to 3516 without the Code, and 3449 with it, a decrease of 1.9%, 35% of the time, or a decrease of 0.67% damage from the armor.

The question is, does the proc make up for it? In the best case, if both are procced all the time on CD, Rune gives me as above 4.06% avoidance, and Code gives me 7.88% avoidance. This 3.82% difference is active 20 seconds per 2 minutes, and at best amounts to 0.64% passive mitigation (favoring the Code). In the best case, the Code barely beats this with 1.31% effective passive avoidance.

The Code is (0.67+c*0.64)/(1.16) percent better than this. That is, the Code is between 13% better and 42% worse than this. If you use the CD's on each half the time, the Code is only 15% worse.

Of course, there's something to be said about having a good amount of avoidance whenever you need it reactively. But, think about this: Lichborne is 25% pure avoidance, while it would take 5 Valor Medals to equal that, 6 of these, and 3 Codes. That is, these buttons don't really do a whole heckuva lot. Sometimes you'll get lucky and they'll let you avoid an attack that would have killed you, but the chance that the extra avoidance even came from these procs is around 1/13 (assuming 5% extra avoidance). So 1 in 13 tank-saving parries or dodges with these trinkets up is from the trinket itself, not to mention such a situation is rare (or better be.). I would say a favorable guess is that these trinkets truly save you from dying 1 time in 50, since it usually doesn't boil down to a single attack. That is, the reactive avoidance effect is probably more psychological than real.

Kommentar von 79477

Summary:

For a DK, Valor Medal of the First War is between 41% and 53% more damage reduction than this.
For a Pally or Warrior, Valor Medal of the First War is between 16% and 18% more damage reduction than this (estimate).
For a DK, Defender's Code is between 13% better and 42% worse (dependong on your CD usage, more favors the Code) than this.
Lower Pally and Warrior armor should push Defender's Code to be more desirable, perhaps making it a tossup between the Code and this.
Depending on how you value Repelling Charge's cooldown, it's a tossup as to which gives higher mitigation. (Calculations not shown)

To summarize the summary, this sucks pretty hard for a Naxx25 piece which should be clearly better than the Valor Medal. I'm pretty certain Blizz didn't figure in DR, since without it it's quite nice.

Kommentar von 319016

why not have the best of both worlds for a DK an eqiup Rune of Repulsion an the Valor Medal of the First War

Kommentar von 239169

Is it even worth factoring in to any of the above equations that Dodge is a flat avoidance mechanic, whereas parry is avoidance + a small weapon haste.

This is simply a question out of curiosity I am not calling anyone out on their math or equations.

Kommentar von 153564

What about going for both equip both the Valor Medal of the First War and Rune of Repulsion
To increase ure parry and dodge rating massivly

and increase my defense rating by other enchants

Shield + 20 defense, instead of 40 block
Chest + 22 defense, instead of +10 all stats

Kommentar von 260011

Also keep in mind warrior tanks, when you parry an attack you swing back faster. Which means more heroic strikes(our bread and butter) and more threat.

So not only are you getting avoidance your getting a threat increase as well.

Having last stand we do not really need another health increase ability worth about 1/4 of it.

Armor is nice when taking those big hits, but then again so is avoidance.

So for warriors your second trinket behind the Valor Medal should be a personal choice between the Rune of Repulsion, and the Defenders code.

Repelling charge if your really hurting for defense.

Kommentar von 43387

This trinket is interesting.

I have decently geared prot Paladin and I am getting loads of dodge with no problems, but getting parry seems issue.

I haven't done math but it seems that more I got dodge over parry more it get diminishing returns, making dodge dropping to get that 102.4% of combined avoidance stats.

I wish I get this so I can try and figure out numbers (before dimishing returns) so I get some decent insight to this issue.

Kommentar von 358645

This Trinket will become much more usefull with the newly (well some what new) this is blade ward. In short you gain +200 parry rating on its proc, and you deal 600-800 damage on a parry. This effect stacks up to 5 times (maybe more), so this could be a useful little trink, if you are still farming naxx 25. So when you pop the CD, you will be parrying a lot, and thus doing more damage and threat. Just my .02c.

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+5 Parieren

Benutzen: Erhöht Euer Parieren 20 sec lang um 24. (2 Min Abklingzeit)
Benötigt Stufe 30

Verkaufspreis: 11 39 40

Geplündert von: Saphiron

Dropchance: 11.50%

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