Havoc Demon Hunter Review - Battle for Azeroth Community Opinions
23.07.2018 um 23:55
Throughout the pre-patch, we'll be launching a community opinions article for every class and spec. We're continuing our Battle for Azeroth Class Reviews and in this post, we'll be taking a look at the state of Havoc Demon Hunters. See if this spec appeals to you in Battle for Azeroth!
We reached out to the Havoc Demon Hunter community to give their thoughts and opinions on the changes and current state of the spec.
If this spec appeals to you after reading this article, check out our
Battle for Azeroth Havoc Demon Hunter Guide
- Raids in Strawberry Puppy Kisses, US-Area 52. Admin of Fel Hammer discord, wowhead Havoc guide writer.
- Raids in Death Jesters, US-Stormrage. Theorycrafter and SimulationCraft maintainer.
- Raids in vodkaz, US-Zul’jin. Admin of Fel Hammer discord, kib’s father.
- Raids in Occasional Excellence, US-Turalyon. Active in both the Havoc and Rogue theorycrafting communities. Maintains the Havoc module in SimulationCraft.
- Raids in Echoes, EU-Laughing Skull. Guide Writer on Icy Veins.
Loss of Twinblades of the Deceiver and Legendaries
Due to their Legion release, Demon Hunters were essentially designed with the artifact mechanics in mind. Thankfully, a number of traits have been rolled baseline over the course of beta.
Despite that, the loss of Fury of the Illidari feels like a major loss of a baseline skill for Havoc, as it has been a large part of the rotation and Havoc’s AoE package. It is unfortunate this ability could not have stayed as part of the Havoc toolkit going forward. AoE damage, in general, was further reduced by the loss of Inner Demons and Balanced Blades. Some changes were recently made prior to the pre-patch to buff
AoE damage, however and there are a number of Azerite traits that will likely help with AoE damage.
Feast on the Souls was a major part of solo and small group play for Havoc and made
reliable in dungeons and solo play. This has returned as the
Augen voll Wut
Azerite trait, which likely won’t be a strong option for single-target DPS but should be solid for solo and dungeon play.
After some time at a max of 100 Fury on beta, Havoc now has 120 Fury baseline. The update to 120 Fury has resolved most of the awkward issues after the loss of Contained Fury that beta players experienced. 120 Fury can now fit an even number of non-refunded
s, which makes it much more flexible and less likely to accidentally cap resource.
Class and Ability Changes
was changed to be a flat 40% refund rate instead of being tied to
. Mechanically, this is probably a healthy change for balancing purposes considering the scaling issues with Critical Rating during Legion, however a 40% refund rate is lower than almost any point in Legion. Many Havoc players were already approaching 50% Critical Chance in Emerald Nightmare, so this 40% value is likely a bit more conservative than it needs to be and leads to a bias towards generators which feels sluggish.
has been changed to deal 50% increased damage to the primary target--similar to
talent. Additionally, the Wide Eyes trait has been rolled baseline to lower the cost to 30 Fury and the base cooldown is now 30 seconds as well. These are great changes as they allow
to be used as a core rotational ability regardless of the number of targets. However, the 100% Critical Hit chance still serves no real mechanical purpose and lessens the value of what will likely be a fairly weak secondary rating after the
has been left in a very strange spot in Battle for Azeroth as its base damage has been considerably lowered and all damage support (such as Bloodlet and
Bionische Stabilisatoren der Mo'arg
) has been removed.
is currently damage neutral on 2 targets compared to
and may even be questionable on the max of 3 targets given the low damage and lack of Fury generation. Considering that the Havoc rotation is already fairly light on buttons, it is hard to figure out what the purpose of
is and why it has been “designed out” of the rotation in Battle for Azeroth. Despite many other tweaks during beta,
has continued to feel extremely weak and very out of place.
has been removed from Havoc despite its overwhelmingly large role in Havoc gameplay since day-one of Legion. While this is understandable from a talent balance perspective, it is somewhat unfortunate to see this completely disappear, especially on a spec lacking a medium duration cooldown.
has been increased from a 15 second to 45 second cooldown, but otherwise functions the same. This is consistent with
, but creates a conflict between abilities such as
that still have no cooldown at all. Additionally,
have more moderate 30 second cooldowns. It would be nice to see more consistency here. As they all technically have 100% uptime on a single target, a longer cooldown only makes CC more difficult to apply when people accidentally break them.
remains largely unchanged, but continues to be a fairly strange cooldown. Its lack of interaction with most abilities makes it very one-dimensional and it would be ideal to see it provide increased damage to abilities such as
naturally biases the gameplay towards
-oriented builds due to its design.
Demon Reborn is the third and last talent removed from the Havoc tree (along with Bloodlet and
, as mentioned earlier) but is likely not to be missed too much.
In a slightly confusing (but welcomed) change, the Havoc interrupt Consume Magic has been renamed to
. This is due to the addition of a brand-new offensive purge ability called
, which is a powerful and much-needed addition to the Havoc utility toolkit.
is a single-effect purge which additionally grants 20 Fury, making it a pretty strong DPS increase (when usable) on a 10 second cooldown.
Demon Hunters were also given one of the five new raid buffs,
, which will likely mean at least once Demon Hunter will be “required” in most raid compositions.
99 Tier - This tier is focused on bonus Fury gains.
- Basically the same, however the 100% damage increase for
on primary targets makes this a more effective DPS increase. Unfortunately, due to the slightly lower Fury cap mentioned above, it is impossible to not waste a bit of Fury from this effect.
- Without Feast on the Souls, this talent feels a bit lost.
are more interesting talents and
’s benefit is pure survivability without that trait. This talent gets much stronger with the
Augen voll Wut
Azerite trait, but time will tell what the ultimate value will be. Changing to RPPM is a good idea for balance, as it removes the
feedback loop. Souls are still awkward to see and pick up at times and it would be welcome to have a Vengeance-style aura for tracking available souls instead of having to guess.
- Essentially the same but the cooldown reset rate was reduced from 4.5 to 2 RPPM, which is a big hit to the pace and power-level of the talent. However,
still remains a viable option due to the movement aspect and supplemental damage.
100 Tier - This tier is focused on primary Fury gains
- This is basically part of the
Zorn der Halbriesen
effect turned into a talent. Increases Fury generation marginally but is currently quite mediocre. The overall Fury gain here is low and it is the only talent on the tier that doesn’t have a damage component.
- With the lower refund rate on
, this doesn’t feel great on beta.
was adjusted multiple times based on higher
refund rates and the
Zorn der Halbriesen
legendary. Needs to be reevaluated within the context of the current mechanics. The damage component was buffed late in beta and it is now a viable option in this tier, however the Fury gains remain inconsistent and often frustrating.
- Probably the consensus best addition to the Havoc toolkit in Battle for Azeroth. This ability is fun to use and is an effective secondary Fury generator. Many Havoc players seem pretty excited to use this ability, so the relative weakness elsewhere on this tier is poor for talent diversity but not too negative in terms of player impact as
is a great ability to take. The damage of
has been slightly reduced over the course of beta, but still remains a strong option.
102 Tier - This tier is focused on increasing AoE capabilities
Spur des Ruins
- Somewhat boring but a fairly typical passive. Was recently hotfixed to correctly scale from Mastery and is now a relatively strong option in this tier in conjunctions with the
- Is now a pure damage increased compared to the hybrid damage + Fury generation design in Legion. However, it is now a much larger damage effect and likely will be extremely strong for
Eifer des Gefechts
builds or any encounter with consistent AoE. Has large design space crossover with
Spur des Ruins
, however, since they essentially do the same thing in in the same way for sustained AoE scenarios. One will almost certainly be numerically superior at any given time.
- Retaining the damage effect, this no longer has the complex cooldown reduction mechanic. Now simply a 1 minute burst AoE cooldown,
is likely to be quite useful in dungeons and on fights with timed add waves.
’s damage has been reduced a bit from its early beta form, but still is a very strong burst AoE ability.
was always a good talent that was simply competing with better talents. On an AoE-specific tier, this is a much better fit. Currently,
has a somewhat unique property of having a fixed 3 second channel duration with hasted ticks, allowing its damage to scale from
104 Tier - This tier is focused on survivability increases
- The only talent on this tier with any notable change. Now grants 10% passive Leech while having less burst Leech while in Meta. Overall a positive change for both solo play and raids as most of the additional Leech resulted in overhealing.
- Still essentially the same as in Legion. Situationally interesting, although the auto-trigger can be awkward in many situations. Overall, this is a pretty underwhelming talent outside of some situational uses where
going up to 50% is useful for some specific purpose.
- Unchanged from Legion. Still a poor man’s
Mantel der Schatten
, but likely will still be used for certain soaking applications.
still has the negative of serving no purpose on encounters where immunities are ignored.
Mantel der Schatten
can often still be used to remove deadly debuffs even if damage is not prevented, but
106 Tier - This tier is focused primarily on increasing direct damage
- This is our second Legendary item talent translation, as it pretty closely mimics the effect of
. However, this version is far less reliable. With this effect only being triggered by 40% chance
refunds alone (instead of all Fury spent,) the effect will be quite a bit less consistent.
Unfortunately, due to fight timings and cooldown breakpoints, this is not the type of effect that should be inconsistent. Delusions was very popular, but only because it could be used to yield additional uses of
on encounters at specific intervals. This also seems to be a poor “left column” passive as it is complex to evaluate and has limited solo play use.
- Basically unchanged other than moving tiers. This always has the potential to be quite strong as it turns
into a very high damage per cost ability and increases single-target priority damage even in AoE scenarios. This seems like a more natural left-tier passive than
is used heavily while questing/leveling.
Note: An unfortunate aspect of
is that it does not increase the damage of
Spur des Ruins
on the primary target. Additionally, it is the only talent on the 106 Tier that does not benefit from Mastery in any way. This has the effect of making Mastery a very inconsistent stat for general-case gearing, as its value will hinge on which talent is picked in this tier. For
builds, Mastery is quite weak.
- The Havoc community seems very excited about this in general. It is a fun ability with huge payoff. However, as a talent, this seems problematic to balance against other options in the tier. This is an
powerful effect, but depends on the ability to maximize its usage. This is likely to become significantly stronger later in the xpac as Haste increases Fury generation and makes it easier to take advantage of.
has the potential to be rotation-warping and could become difficult to disentangle from core balance issues, but is currently held back by low gear levels and the relatively poor state of Mastery scaling.
108 Tier - This tier is focused on utility benefits
- Talent itself is unchanged now that
was reverted to its previous Legion state of being an AoE stun. Very useful for solo and dungeon play as it makes
a more reliable, on-demand stun. Can be a DPS increase on stunnable enemies when using
due to the Lesser Soul spawn mechanic being recently being added into
when it was converted back to a stun.
- After a brief period of being mostly useless on beta, this was returned back to its Legion state. The return of the additional charge makes this a fairly reliable cleave snare, although
still deals very low damage in BfA.
- No longer includes the large damage component against stun immune enemies in Legion. This allows the talent to be moved to the utility row instead of the cooldown row like before. 30 seconds is a fairly long cooldown for a short stun effect. Abilities like
offer far more reliable stuns for dungeons and raids. It would be nice to either see the stun duration increased or the cooldown reduced.
110 Tier - This tier is focused on damage increasing cooldowns
- The effect is unchanged from Legion, but there are some related changes due to surrounding mechanics. On one hand, this is more generally attractive as
will be used in the single-target rotation due to the 50% primary damage increase mechanic.
Overall, it is positive that
can now be taken without a super-specific talent setup. Something to watch closely here is the large potential synergy with
Eifer des Gefechts
- This talent is an interesting change from Legion, as it combines the effects of
Eifer des Gefechts
and Prepared into a single talent, but removes the
Eifer des Gefechts
. This makes
the damage-increaser and
the Fury generator. Naturally very strong for AoE scenarios as
will be used anyway for AoE damage.
At the start of Legion when
Eifer des Gefechts
was being played heavily,
were not chained as you wanted to stagger them for higher uptime on the damage buff itself. With the changes, using them together is now beneficial.
being on the GCD now, this “combo” feels far more awkward than it needs to. These two abilities already had a shared 1 second cooldown, so the GCD change to
feels unnecessary. If you could smoothly combo
to return to melee range, this talent could be a lot more fun.
- This is mostly unchanged from Legion and a pretty no-brainer talent for single-target boss encounters. Fairly boring but syncs well with
and is very consistent. Late in beta, the damage increase was reduced from 25% to 20%, but this still remains a strong option for single target gameplay.
secondary mechanic has shown itself to be quite weak in Legion and generally ignored outside of a small number of dungeons. Not enough dungeons or encounters share enemy types for this to be strategically viable and
Eifer des Gefechts
has always been a stronger talent for in AoE scenarios anyway. Most boss encounters feature types that do not match and “proper” usage of this talent has rarely been practical. Additionally,
suffers from being non-functional with un-typed enemies (Gul’dan eyes, Xavius adds) and the fact that many encounter enemies do not actually trigger “death” abilities.
In many ways, Havoc remains quite similar at its core compared to Legion. There are definitely some nice improvements here but also some minor missteps that could be corrected to make the rotation more fun and engaging.
The loss Fury of the Illidari has been somewhat painful, but most of the important artifact traits have been rolled into the baseline spec over the course of beta.
One of the biggest issues with Havoc currently is that the core rotation is still extremely sparse and quite boring. While there are a number of talent builds that play in a fun and engaging fashion in beta, those builds usually involve additional abilities such as
Without taking the optional abilities, the core rotation of Havoc is essentially just
off cooldown. The baseline spec has very little in the way of reactive procs or emergent interactions and without key talents the spec is not particularly interesting to play. This is risky as it leaves the fun-factor of the spec at the mercy of talent balancing and also may lead to poor talent build diversity.
On the plus side, the active abilities are looking fairly strong right now and most of the top-performing Havoc builds are considerably more interactive than the current Legion rotation.
While it would be nice for Havoc to have another baseline ability or mechanic, the current talent options have made the rotation significantly more fun.
Havoc’s toolkit has slowly improved over the course of beta with the return of
as a stun and the addition of
. Although it likely will still be leaning heavily on
in order to secure raid spots, Havoc’s utility is looking quite a bit stronger than it initially did on beta.
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