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News Round Up: Vanity Loot in LFR Satchels, 5.2 Trinket Preview, Ghostcrawler on Class Balance
geposted
15.02.2013 um 11:42
von
perculia
Loot Improvements Coming to LFR Satchels
Many of us have felt the disappointment of using a
Ehrwürdiges Amulett des Glücks
in the hopes of obtaining a Sha-Touched weapon and getting
Dividenden des ewigen Frühlings
instead. In 5.2, it seems that these bags will contain more fun things, similar to
Beutel voller nebulöser Geheimnisse
! Besides pets and mounts, there will be
LFR versions of trash drops
and valuable vendor trash in the style of
Rikos Schatzkarte
from
Preisgeldbeutel
.
Bashiok
The change is still in for the failbags to ... not be fail. They'll have a chance to contain things like very valuable grey items (essentially randomizing the gold you get from the bags), LFR versions of non-boss loot,
Geist der Harmonie
, consumables, pets and mounts, and... maybe some other stuff I forgot. Lots of things! Opening them should have some anticipation and surprise now. :)
Ghostcrawler on Class Balance and Trinkets
Ghostcrawler has posted a ton of updates on class balance this week--specifically, Discipline Priests had a lot of changes today. We've organized all of his comments below by class.
In addition to class balance, Ghostcrawler also has posted some information on the new 5.2 raid trinkets
datamined last week
. While some of this information may be on the technical side, it's useful to get a sense of how your new BiS trinkets will work.
Rune der Neuerschaffung
and
Unfehlbarer Blick des Lei Shen
are planned to be easily accessible on the PTR soon for theorycrafting too.
Here's the trinkets you'll be after in Patch 5.2:
Agility:
Talisman des Blutdurstes
,
Rune der Neuerschaffung
,
Renatakis Seelentalisman
,
Finsteres Juju
Caster:
Unfehlbarer Blick des Lei Shen
,
Wushoolays letzte Wahl
,
Odem der Hydra
,
Cha-Yes brillante Essenz
Healer:
Horridons letzter Atemzug
,
Unfehlbarer Blick des Lei Shen
,
Blitz-verzauberter Kelch
,
Odem der Hydra
,
Gestohlenes Relikt von Zuldazar
Tank:
Seelenbarriere
,
Kraft der Zandalari
,
Ji-Kuns Aufwind
,
Filigrane Phiole des Blutsaugers
Strength:
Blick der Zwillinge
,
Funken von Zandalar
,
Legendäre Feder von Ji-Kun
,
Primordius' Talisman der Wut
Fun procs:
Finsteres Juju
summons voodoo gnomes,
Funken von Zandalar
turns you into a Zandalari warrior.
Full list of all the
LFR, Normal, and Heroic
trinkets coming in 5.2.
To learn more about 5.2 loot, check out our
Tier 15 Itemsets
,
Throne of Thunder Loot Tables
,
Tier 15 Weapon Models
, and
Season 13 PvP gear
posts.
Click the cut to read Ghostcrawler's posts!
Ghostcrawler
Could you guys PLEASE look at Death Knights final tier talents as they are now they are absolutely USELESS in a raid situation
is an AoE cc that obviously dosent work on a raid boss there immune then there's gorefiends grasp an AoE deathgrip obviously useless in a raid encounter as they are immune to its affects as well then there's
Entweihter Boden
? i forget the last ones name but boss loss of control mechanics can not be broken by any ability. PLEASE look them over and give one of them something useful to raid boss encounter i feel left out of all the cool level 90 talents.
Originally, they all did damage in addition to their other utility so players would use them in raiding environments. Unfortunately, the damage just overshadowed everything else. Players tried to figure out how to work them into their normal rotations to maximize DPS, and then the utility almost became a liability, because you had to delay the ability (i.e. nerf your DPS) in order to use their utility. We think DK rotations have enough going on that the level 90 talents don’t need to provide say Unholy Prism etc. and the DK level 90 talents as is are still useful. We don’t have many raid bosses these days that don’t come with some kind of add that often does need to be CC’d, and raids still have trash, as do challenge modes.
Death Knight
- You now maintain the same percentage of health when you switch into and out of
Veteran des Dritten Krieges
-
Strangulieren
(but not
Ersticken
) is off the GCD.
Ghostcrawler
Balance - Increased
,
Zorn
and
Sternensog
by 9%.
I question why Rogues are getting 0.7 GCD consideration while Feral is stuck weaving 1.5sec GCD heals into their DPS rotation.
Katzengestalt
has reduced the GCD of spells to 1.0 sec for a few builds now. As I've said, the rogue GCD change is very much an experiment. If it doesn't work out, it's one set bonus that will eventually be replaced. This should not open the gates for everyone requesting microscopic GCDs for their spec. At the end of the day, we have a client-server architecture and the GCD provides time for data communication back and forth.
Ghostcrawler
Recent datamining has shown Invocation being nerfed to reduce our natural mana regen by 100%, up from 50%.
It was that way briefly (and the PTR pull may have caught that change). Instead we are leaving
at -50% mana regen, but we changed
Hervorrufung
to generate 10% mana per tick for Arcane, but affected by Arcane Charges (25% per charge and consumes all charges).
The intent of this change is to try and spare you from having to do single GCDs of
Hervorrufung
every 3 casts, which is probably worth it but not much fun. It's a net buff to
Hervorrufung
total mana regen but a net nerf to frequent
Hervorrufung
.
Versengen
was our only way to obtain at least some mobility before it became castable while moving (yes some of us actually PvP'd as fire before this change). Before that, and at least for me, my only option to chase somebody besides keeping living bomb up was spamming icelance and tbh, I never liked it.
Another idea is to put
Versengen
back in the talent tree and just remove
Heiße Sohlen
. Maybe
Blinzeln
just provides too much of the same niche.
Versengen
trumps
Eisschollen
at the moment, but we think we could solve that.
- We continue to tweak Arcane numbers, so if you're trying to theorycraft Arcane, you may want to hold on for a bit longer. At the moment, we have restored
s back to +50% damage and +150% mana cost but reduced the damage of
Arkanschlag
(-22.2%),
Arkane Geschosse
(-22.2%) and
Arkanbeschuss
(-13.6%).
Ghostcrawler
- Likewise, I wouldn't worry about the details of monk numbers, especially healing, too much yet. If you want to keep track however, here are recent changes: Mana cost of
Ausgebrannte Glyphe
+21%, Mana cost of
Tigerklaue
+33%,
Lehren des Klosters
now provides 2% mana to
, Reduced T15 4pc from -5 sec cooldown on
Donnerfokustee
.
This will make us mistweaver only use jab in combo with TP or we will loss so much mana.
Yes. To oversimplify, we don't want
Tigerklaue
,
Tigerklaue
,
Beleben
, nor do we want
Beruhigender Nebel
,
Beruhigender Nebel
,
. We want Fistweaving to provide significant damage and healing, but both should be less than an actual DPS spec or a traditional healer (again
Abbitte
is the model). Fistweaving will be awesome for some situations, but we want it to be a compromise, otherwise, you'd want monks for all your healers, since you get all this bonus DPS on the side for no healing cost. In order to deliver on this, we have to make it harder to cherry pick some Fistweaving abilities and some Mistweaving abilities.
will restore 2% mana at all times. Is the possible use of
to dump extra Chi (generated by
Beruhigender Nebel
during down time, or
Kräftige Schläge
, for example) in exchange for mana intended? Or are you planning to tie the mana regen mechanic to
to prevent this?
We’re currently still planning to let
always restore 2% mana. Yes, this is a potential way to convert chi into mana efficiently, but it still doesn’t generate as much mana as it cost to generate that chi, so isn’t mana positive. And the healing it provides, without
, is rather small. It’s definitely something we’ve noticed and are keeping an eye on, though.
The reason
Tigerklaue
,
Tigerklaue
,
Beleben
ultimately came to be was because of it's reliability. Part of it was mana efficiency, but most of it comes down to it's the only on-gcd guaranteed chi generation.
We don't really have a problem if you use
Tigerklaue
,
Tigerklaue
,
Beleben
infrequently when you absolutely feel like you need chi. But it's going to be expensive to do so. We ask healers to make decisions about efficiency versus throughput all the time. When it feels too expensive though, switch to Jab Jab
or just swap to actual heals.
With the buffs to penance and the increased focus on
Abbitte
, are you at all worried about seeing guilds stacking Disc priests simply because of their dps?
Disc and Fistweaving monks should do less DPS than a true DPS spec and less healing while in DPS mode than someone casting healing spells. The advantage they provide is that sometimes a little healing and a little DPS is what you need. These changes weren't intended to be a huge buff to
Abbitte
, so we'll have to see how it shakes out.
Ghostcrawler
Paladin
Here is the current PTR
: Fills you with Holy Light, causing melee attacks (and Judgment) to apply
to your target.
: The attacking Paladin's next
Urteil des Templers
striking this target will also deal 25% weapon damage as Holy per application of
. Stacks up to 5 times. Lasts 15 sec. Undispellable. Using the
Urteil des Templers
consumes the stack. The
proc itself is not affected by mastery, nor is the mastery proc from
Urteil des Templers
counted for purposes of how hard
hits.
We understand the concern that this superficially looks a little like the old Taste for Blood. Taste for Blood was designed to be very random in order to limit the planning the warrior could do and limit its frequency. (It was also off the GCD, a buff rather than a debuff which made it feel even less predictable to the victim, and stackable with other big hits like Heroic Leap.)
is designed to be a very predictable mechanic in order to unload some decent damage even when GoaK and wings are on CD. Yes, it will be even bigger when stacked with CDs. Big hits that take a lot of planning and give their target plenty of notification and opportunities to counter are more acceptable than those that come out of the blue.
We also understand the concern that this forces paladins into taking
if they want a snare. However, that is offset by the data that suggests some (but not all) paladins take Burden today (meaning the cost for taking it isn't too great), but hardly anyone uses the current
today; i.e. most Rets are running around with no snare at all.
On the other hand, if Ret still isn't going to use this new
, then there is no reason to change it, and we could just leave it as a dead spell for 5.2.
I don't get the
change either because at first GC didn't want to buff sustain because it meant buffing burst so now he plans to buff burst which will buff burst even more!?
I think we’re all using terms like “burst” too generically. The more specific problem is that Rets have a couple of really strong cooldowns that they can’t use very often. This leads to the perception that their damage is great with GoaK + Wings and weak outside of it. A few weeks ago (largely through Twitter), I explained that we could drop Wings CD, but then you’re looking at a 10% DPS increase every minute (or something). That means there are more frequent periods of high damage, but it’s a big nerf to having on-demand burst. On the other hand, we don’t want to just buff say Judgment,
Kreuzfahrerstoß
,
Urteil des Templers
and
across the board, because then inside of GoaK + Wings, Ret just blows people up. We’re trying to use the new
as a shorter cooldown to improve damage outside of GoaK + Wings + trinket. (It also improves damage with GoaK + Wings even more, but only for one hit. You can’t unload with
Heiliger Rächer
and the new
for example.)
Do you consider this change to make progression PVE ret's reinstitute seal twisting as mandatory? Or is the debuff going to be mutually exclusive to
? Also, "melee attacks" in this case mean
Kreuzfahrerstoß
/HotR, Judgement, and white attacks only, correct? I guess I'm just concerned with how this plays into min/max PVE, esp considering the fact that seals are still on the GCD.
We don’t want to encourage more Seal twisting. We could consider a 20 sec shared cooldown on Seals if we needed to. We’d rather a PvE paladin consider which Seal made more sense for the fight at hand and a PvP paladin use
unless they really wanted
for some reason (to damage two targets at once or prevent stealth for example). As I said above, we are trying to fix a PvP problem here. If the new idea doesn’t solve that problem and paladins just prefer
still and we create a lot of pressure to Seal twist, then we’re doing more harm than good.
Also, is there still a passive damage component associated with
, like the current 16% weapon damage as holy on Live? Or is this new
Debuff the only form of damage associate with the seal?
No, there is no passive component. We did that because it let us make the debuff that much larger.
Can you share the proc rate for us? is judgment 100% chance to generate a proc?
The proc rate is 100%, just like
. There is no random chance involved.
Will I be able to prevent the application of Judgment stacks with AMS?
It will behave like
(
’s proc), and I don’t believe you can prevent
with AMS. I may not be correct with that assumption.
What exactly is the intention?
for pvp.
for pve?
for cds or something?
We’d be pretty happy with
for PvP,
for single target PvE and
for AE PvE. That was the original MoP design intent, but
’s damage is too low, and the dot from
does have some PvP benefit. That said, we try not to be too heavy handed with our designs. We give players tools and let them use them creatively, so long as the specs stay relatively balanced and nobody’s rotation becomes stupidly convoluted or numbingly simple. So if players find ways to use
in PvP or
in PvE, we’re okay with that.
I believe he said it will last 15 seconds and stack exactly how
does now. If that is the case we should be able to swap between two targets in that 15 second time span. However, since the stacks will get consumed it will be more difficult to keep them up on more than one target.
Our intent was that if you were building stacks of
and had to swap targets, you'd then be building stacks on two targets. The more generous we make the duration, the easier that is to do, but the harder it is for enemies to escape as well.
Your data is full of PVE Ret paladins. PVP paladins use
in arenas.
I was explicitly referring to relatively high-end Arena players. Many (guessing 60% because I don't have the data right in front of me) use
. The rest split between
and
Buße
about evenly. We can't always answer why players use certain abilities, but we can usually answer what they're using.
Ghostcrawler
-
Gedankenschlag
- Increased
Gedankenschlag
by 20%. (Yeah I know you have to stop and cast it modulo procs, but I meant in contrast to
Gedankenschinden
which makes you really plant.)
- We are sympathetic to the argument that we have been schizophrenic (to use the term incorrectly) in the Shadow PvP 4pc VT dispel bonus (
Sünde und Strafe
). Originally the enemy strategy was to just "get it over with" and dispel
Vampirberührung
until the horror went on DR. We changed the way dispels work so that isn't much of a strategy these days, however the dispel is still in the hands of the enemy and not the Shadow priest, which we agree makes the DR extra punitive. We also think we've hit Shadow hard enough in PvP that this nerf isn't required, so we're going to remove the DR from the Horror proc from
Vampirberührung
dispels.
- We haven't forgotten to have
provide a heal for Holy. That's still in the cards.
Could you possibly speak on this subject? It feels like the tier is designed exclusively for Holy, and that makes me sad.
We've been searching for some hard numbers (key phrase there) on secondary stat values for Disc with the 5.2 changes, but so far we can't find much discussion out there beyond "Well, I guess we might want more crit so
Gebet der Heilung
will give
again." If you know of any we might not have seen (another key phrase there), let us know.
For Disc priests, will Atonement count as 'helpful spell'? In cata this was the case for some trinkets early on, but not in DS.
Currently, no, but since it’s RPPM, any single heal or periodic tick every 10 sec will give you the full proc frequency. A single
Erneuerung
out, or a
Machtwort: Schild
cast every 10 sec, etc.
Priest
-
Seele der Macht
- in addition to current effects, also increases all damage by 10%.
- And now, Discipline. Recall that the main problems we are trying to fix for Disc in PvE are that they are overpowered and relying too much on
Gebet der Heilung
spam, especially in 25s. We made some changes to
, but we're not happy with them. Because of the interaction with crit and mastery, we worry Disc will be too crit-dependent and won't be strong enough when they fail to crit. On top of that, we're worried that it will be too easy to push Disc priests into loving mastery and hating crit or loving crit and hating mastery. To try and address all of those problems, old and new, we are trying a few different things:
1)
now works differently. It causes any critical heal to proc a bubble for 100% of the heal instead of doubling the heal. In other words, a crit for Holy is a 200% heal. A crit for Disc is a 100% heal + a 100% bubble. The bubble however benefits from mastery, so it's more likely a 100% heal + a 130% bubble.
2)
Machtwort: Schild
can now crit for Discipline.
3) Mastery now boosts shields by 1.6% per point (down from 2.5% per point) but now also increases all healing by 0.8% per point.
What we hope this does:
- Keeps the kit of
making crits do something special.
- Makes Disc still awesome at bubbles, but not quite so weak at heals. (Holy will cast bigger heals than Disc, but not 50% higher.)
- Makes
Gebet der Heilung
good for periods of restoring damage, but makes
Machtwort: Schild
better for periods of preventing damage. (Inner Focus to force
and
Geisthülle
also help with preventing damage).
- Making crit a good stat, because it benefits most of the toolbox (including
Machtwort: Schild
) and causing
bubbles, but also keeping mastery a good stat, because the bubbles are large, and even when you don't get a bubble, it will still help your heal.
"Help, I'm a nervous Disc priest. Reassure me!"
Keep casting
Gebet der Heilung
like you do today. Keep using
Geisthülle
when you anticipate big damage. Start using
Machtwort: Schild
more than you likely do today. Remember that we buffed
Sühne
.
Abbitte
still works. You might need to pay more attention to Spirit (the way the other healers do today).
Yes, I wrote all of this from a PvE point of view. We made several other Disc changes to help in PvP, and we haven't reverted any unless I explicitly mentioned them.
Will the mastery provide a straight up boost to healing too or is it still a 20% buff to absorbs + x% per point of master and y% boost to your healing?
The way mastery works for everyone is there is a base amount so that you benefit even with no mastery gear. We used to call it 8 "points" but we don't use that terminology anymore. for Disc, the base amount is +12.8% to absorbs and +6.4% to heals. A character with 8824 mastery would have +36.33% to absorbs and +18.16% to heals. The 3000 mastery raid buff would bump that up to +44.33% to absorbs and +22.16% to heals. Also note that the metagem which increases the size of your crits still works.
If you had all of the above mastery and the crit gem and you cast a heal for 100K, it would heal for 122K, or if it crit, it would heal for 126K and proc a 182K absorb from Divine Aegis.
lso please buff offensive penance to 40 yards with the glyph of holy fire. It's the only thing that is still 30.
We tried to do that, but
Sühne
is a funny spell, which made this implementation difficult. We went ahead and just made it 40 yards for damage baseline, which will have the same problem of not all your spells being the same range if you lack the glyph, but at least then you have the option.
Holy gets it's much higher than .08 mastery when it doesn't crit always. We're doing slightly better than them on crits (and only slightly), but the crit % makes it not only really low, but very random and unreliable. Years of healers preferring haste over crit for reliability in healing should factor in here somewhere I'd think.
The hot from Holy is often overhealing. Not always of course, but often. On the other hand, the bubble is almost never overhealing, and in fact often causes everyone else to overheal. You won't crit very often, but when you do, it's essentially a big crit, not unlike an Elemental shaman doing damage. That gives crit some value that other healers don't even have. On the other hand, if you feel like you must get a bubble off and can't rely on RNG, you have four great choices:
Machtwort: Schild
a few people,
a
Gebet der Heilung
, cast
Geisthülle
, or use
Machtwort: Barriere
.
Also, does this make disc the first spec to have a dual mastery or have we seen this before?
Demonology's is similar. Ultimately, we want mastery to be about what your spec uniquely does, but it also has to affect a large enough percent of your damage or healing to make the stat compete against crit and haste. Our design intent for Disc is not to cast nothing but bubbles, so even though bubbles are a big part of the kit, they aren't going to be 90% or whatever of actual heals. So in this case, we felt it made sense to have mastery also help the heals in order to keep it competitive.
The
is 160k and the heal is 200k for a 360k heal. The
is also only 160k so it's less likely to hit the max bubble size cap.
We increased the
cap from 40% to 60% to work better with the new design.
As someone mentioned before, because you've shifted such a huge portion of our crit heals into an absorb, we're now even more susceptible to dispels in PvP. Making
undispellable is a pretty big hammer, so I understand that you're reluctant to do this, but there must be some middle ground.
We will discuss this. My gut is that you aren't critting enough in PvP for loss of DA to amount to that much lost healing, but it does make
less useful, and in any case, the change isn't intended to be a PvP nerf.
Ghostcrawler, all this disc priest information... I love you. Please run away with me where we can live out our lives in peace together.
You got it. I'll bring the gin. Peace out, everyone.
Ghostcrawler
Is there a reason why Subtlety's
Zerhäckseln
can be refreshed with a weaker (aka shorter) version when Combat's can't (you get the 'more powerful spell active' error)?
That is odd. Neither should be refreshed with a weaker aura. We'll look at it.
And do i need to state how rediculous this is for combat? its got to the point where the rogues in my guild thought about not popping
Adrenalinrausch
and
Schattenklingen
together for combat because of the rediculous nature of our energy situation and that inherently hurts our long term dps because
Schattenklingen
wont benefit from the 2-3 cycles/finishers we use during the
Adrenalinrausch
. I Hope all of what i have said makes some sense to you, im not whining here, im simply pointing out a fundemental issue with the 4 piece.
What is the inherent problem with not using
Adrenalinrausch
and
Schattenklingen
together? Doesn’t that sort of give you two
Adrenalinrausch
es? If it’s a big DPS loss then that would be a problem, but all it really seems to be doing is changing up your rotation a bit.
Rogue 4 piece is COMPLETELY useless for combat. We already energy cap during
Adrenalinrausch
, so giving us more energy during Shadow Blades does nothing, as de-coupling
Adrenalinrausch
/Shadow Blades appears to be a DPS loss even with the 4 piece. I thought the goal was to boost combat single target damage in 5.2. Guess not.
We would need to see some numbers on this. If you hate to decouple the two CDs then I could see how it would be a problem. But decoupling them and using the set bonus should be a DPS increase.
- We think we understand the rogue concerns on the PvE 4pc better now (
Item - Rogue T15 4P Bonus
). We don't mind Combat having to unlink
Adrenalinrausch
and
Schattenklingen
to maximize the bonus, and we still think the set bonus is a DPS increase over not having it. However, it may be the case that the value of the set bonus forces Combat to swap to another spec because the cooldown stacking is one of the mechanics that keeps Combat competitive. To try to (ahem) combat this, we are going to do something unusual and allow the set bonus to also reduce the global cooldown on rogue abilities to 0.7 sec during
Schattenklingen
. This should help prevent GCD lock / energy capping. Normally we are very reluctant to reduce the GCD lower than 1 sec, so this is very much an experiment.
Here's the followup question then. Will this disable the
Ausgebrannte Glyphe
? That brings Combat to a .5s GCD with the glyph if they're stacked.
They will stack. As I said, it's an experiment.
Ghostcrawler
- We are separating out
Führung der Ahnen
into a damage conversion number and a healing conversion number in order to allow for better tuning and to ultimately make the talent more attractive to Resto. I am guessing at the numbers right now, but imagine it says something like: "When you deal direct damage, 40% is copied as healing. When you deal direct healing, 60% is copied as healing."
There was no nerf. Sorry if my explanation was unclear.
Lavaeruption
with
should do exactly the same damage it does on live.
Lavaeruption
without
will do more damage than it does on live. It is a buff to unfavorable situations.
Now all that said, Elemental's damage is still low. I didn't want that message to distract players from the
Lavaeruption
change. I also didn't want players to campaign for just buffing the heck out of
Lavaeruption
, because that would have done damage to the rotation and PvP. Instead, we want to buff Elemental evenly. Imagine a Shamanism buff if you must until we decide the actual change.
Ghostcrawler, is it intended that abilities like
or
Brüllen der Aufopferung
prevent
Lavaeruption
from critting even though it clearly states "always deal a critical strike."?
Chaosblitz
which has the always critical isn't affected by this. The nerf to lava burst damage means while these effects are up we do next to no damage with it even worse than
Lavaeruption
not critting before.
Hopefully this is just an oversight.
Whether the Immovable Object or the Unstoppable Force wins is something we’re inconsistent about at times. We'll discuss this and make a call. I agree at first glance that it would make sense to work like
Chaosblitz
.
Ghostcrawler
Look at it this way, you say that 90% or Locks are using
Grimoire der Opferung
and that's why it needs to be nerfed, but really the vast majority of those people are playing with
Grimoire der Opferung
becasue they DON"T WANT TO USE A PET.
If you hate pets, take
Grimoire der Opferung
(though I also have to challenge a little bit why you picked a pet class to play in the first place). What we don’t want is for warlocks to take
Grimoire der Opferung
just because it’s a dps increase. The average warlock should have a demon out. If a subset of them do not because they take
Grimoire der Opferung
, we’re okay with that. If very few of them have demons out because a spreadsheet said
Grimoire der Opferung
is a 1% dps increase, then we’re not okay with it.
A lot of Warlocks are wondering why our AOE spells are getting reduced so dramatically?
Are you referring to
Saat der Verderbnis
and
? We don't usually do 15 yard radii for AE spells. It just felt gratuitous and was causing warlocks to do a lot of extra damage in some situations without requiring any extra effort on their part. It was also a bit ridiculous with
.
Ghostcrawler
,
Spalten
,
Donnerknall
,
Wirbelwind
, and Talented attacks. All vying for a place in AoE.
We treat cleaves (2-3 targets) and AEs (4, 6, 10+) targets a little differently. Because we try to have mostly 2 tank fights these days, cleave situations are a lot more common.
and
Spalten
are for cleaving (and I agree you could argue that
and
Spalten
aren’t as important for Arms as they used to be).
Wirbelwind
is for actual AE situations.
Donnerknall
can be used for anything, though you can’t really and wouldn’t want to just spam
Donnerknall
.
Also, think about how often in PvE you are doing AE vs. doing single-target damage in PvE. I think sometimes all of us (developers included) get too focused on these mythical Patchwerk fights that just don’t happen very often anymore. Increasingly, every spec is going to need an interesting AE rotation because increasingly you’re asked to do a lot of AE. (Channeling Blizzard is not an interesting rotation in our book.)
i assumed this was suppose to spread the snare from
Kriegstreiber
to other targets also
never actually seen it in any official patch notes.. was this an error on their part or is bugged currently on the ptr?
The
Ausgebrannte Glyphe
works with the snare as well as the stun.
Arms - Increased
Tiefe Wunden
by +100%.
- We are going to try the suggestion where
Überwältigen
lowers the
Tödlicher Stoß
cooldown by 0.5 sec. This is to avoid any conflict with the 1.0 sec GCD of
Überwältigen
causing niggling 0.5 sec holes in the rotation. See how it feels. This will be an Arms DPS increase that we're not sure they need after the Deep Wounds buff, but I'll report back if we take additional steps.
Go back to the start, start with the principle of "Basic rotation is MS->
Überwältigen
->
Überwältigen
->X" and "Sometimes you will prioritize
Zerschmettern
over
Überwältigen
when you are running high on rage", and figure out how to make it work from there. As it is, always having
Überwältigen
always taking priority over all the other fillers leaves the rotation feeling too cramped and awkward, and takes all rage management out of the rotation, leaving us with no choices except hitting HS when we can't spend enough rage with the default rotation.
The intent is
Tödlicher Stoß
->
Überwältigen
with
Zerschmettern
used during
or during moments of excess rage.
We tried the change to
Überwältigen
proc'ing
Plötzlicher Tod
with noble intentions of making the rotation more dynamic since CS would be slightly more predictable. However, the change isn't a clear win, so we're not sure it's a good change. We are likely to go back to autoattacks proc
Plötzlicher Tod
, but leaving the 1 GCD on
Überwältigen
. We are also intrigued by the idea of having
(mastery) also proc
Plötzlicher Tod
, so we might run some numbers on that. The buff to
Tiefe Wunden
, mastery and haste should all help with Arms scaling (though we remain convinced that players often focus much too much on scaling and not on overall DPS).
Ghostcrawler
Agility DPS
-
Heimtückischer Talisman des Shado-Pan-Vorstoßes
– 15% chance on landing harmful abilities and spells, and melee/ranged abilities and swings. 105 sec ICD.
-
Renatakis Seelentalisman
– 0.56 RealPPM on landing harmful abilities and spells, and melee/ranged abilities and swings. 22 sec ICD.
-
Talisman des Blutdurstes
– 3.00 RealPPM on landing harmful abilities and spells, and melee/ranged abilities and swings. No ICD.
-
Finsteres Juju
– 0.50 RealPPM on landing harmful abilities and spells, and melee/ranged abilities and swings. No ICD. Voodoo Gnomes are mostly for flavor; they deal ~200 damage before armor per hit.
-
Rune der Neuerschaffung
– 0.46 RealPPM on landing harmful abilities and spells, and melee/ranged abilities and swings. 22 sec ICD
Strength DPS
-
Brutaler Talisman des Shado-Pan-Vorstoßes
- 15% chance on landing harmful abilities and spells, and melee/ranged abilities and swings. 75 sec ICD.
-
Legendäre Feder von Ji-Kun
- 0.56 RealPPM on landing harmful abilities and spells, and melee/ranged abilities and swings. 22 sec ICD.
-
Primordius' Talisman der Wut
– 3.00 RealPPM on landing harmful abilities and spells, and melee/ranged abilities and swings. No ICD.
-
Funken von Zandalar
- 5.00 RealPPM on landing harmful abilities and spells, and melee/ranged abilities and swings. No ICD.
-
Blick der Zwillinge
– 1.00 RealPPM on critical harmful abilities and spells, periodic spell, and melee/ranged abilities and swings. No ICD.
Intellect DPS
-
Unberechenbarer Talisman des Shado-Pan-Vorstoßes
– 15% chance on landing harmful spell. 45sec ICD.
-
Wushoolays letzte Wahl
– 0.56 RealPPM on damage/absorb from harmful abilities and spells, and periodic spells. 22 sec ICD.
-
Odem der Hydra
– 0.50 RealPPM on damage/absorb from periodic spell. No ICD.
-
Unfehlbarer Blick des Lei Shen
– 0.50 RealPPM on damage/absorb from harmful spells and periodic spells. No ICD.
-
Cha-Yes brillante Essenz
– 1.00 RealPPM on critical harmful spells and periodic spells. No ICD.
Healer
-
Beruhigender Talisman des Shado-Pan-Vorstoßes
– On Use, 180sec CD.
-
Horridons letzter Atemzug
– 1.00 RealPPM on heal from helpful spell and periodic spell while in combat. No ICD.
-
Verzierter Beutel mit Hydraeiern
– 1.13 RealPPM on heal from helpful spell and periodic spell while in combat. 17 sec ICD.
-
Gestohlenes Relikt von Zuldazar
– 3.00 RealPPM on attempting helpful spell while in combat. No ICD. Use effect has a 20sec CD.
-
Blitz-verzauberter Kelch
– 3.00 RealPPM on heal from helpful spell and periodic spell while in combat. No ICD.
Tank
-
Beständiger Talisman des Shado-Pan-Vorstoßes
– On Use, 120 sec CD.
-
Kraft der Zandalari
– On Use, 120 sec CD.
-
Filigrane Phiole des Blutsaugers
– 4% chance on dodge melee ability or swing. No ICD.
-
Ji-Kuns Aufwind
– 100% chance on taking damage from melee abilities or swings, that leaves you below 35% health. 30 sec ICD.
-
Seelenbarriere
- On Use, 120 sec CD.
Legendary Metagems
Finsterer Bergkristall
– 0.84 RealPPM on damage/absorb of harmful or periodic spell. No ICD.
Mutiger Bergkristall
– 1.00 RealPPM on attempting helpful spell. No ICD.
Unbeugsamer Bergkristall
– 1.00 RealPPM on damage/absorb taken from melee ability or swing. No ICD.
Geladener Bergkristall
– 15.00 base RealPPM on landing melee/ranged abilities and swings. No ICD. At 5 stacks, fires Lightning Strike, which deals Nature damage. That base proc rate is multiplied by an additional coefficient by spec:
- Assassination: 1.535
- Combat: 0.99
- Subtlety: 0.98
- Feral: 1.934
- Windwalker: 1.084
- Beast Mastery: 1.604
- Marksmanship: 1.594
- Survival: 1.449
- Enhancement: 1.093
- Retribution: 1.923
- Frost DK (2H): 1.309
- Frost DK (DW): 1.572
- Unholy: 1.34
- Arms: 1.771
- Fury (TG): 1.784
- Fury (SMF): 1.951
Why is the PPM different by spec considering that realPPM is supposed to give every class/spec roughly the same proc rate already?
Three reasons. A) RealPPM procs still scale more frequently with haste, which many specs have drastically more or less of. B) The proc that it gives you in this case scales directly with AP, which many specs have drastically more or less of. C) It’s not terribly uncommon for A or B (but not usually both) to occur on a trinket, and we can swallow that much variance. And there are typically other options for trinkets if one underperforms for you; there isn’t here, and we want the legendary metagems to be equally awesome for everyone. As a sidenote, we didn’t do that spec variance yet for the
Finsterer Bergkristall
(caster DPS) one, but are still considering doing so. The situation there doesn’t seem quite as skewed as it did for the physical DPS, so we haven’t yet, but still very well might.
Can you at least clarify how
Rune der Neuerschaffung
would work? Wording on the trinket is not very clear.
Warning: technical mumbo jumbo follows.
At proc time, it checks how much crit, haste, and mastery you have (yes, this is a snapshot, and does NOT include the mastery raid buff). It finds which is the highest of those 3 (tie breaking rule: crit trumps haste trumps mastery), and gives you a buff of + to your highest stat, and - and -. For example, if you have 6000 mastery, 3000 crit, 2000 haste, and the proc goes off, it gives you a buff that provides . It does not continue adjusting that buff as stats change during its duration. Yes, this means that if you have a temporary buff to a stat that is not your highest (even with the temporary buff), and that temporary buff falls off during
Neuerschaffung
, you *could* end up with negative rating. In this obscure edge case, negative crit does reduce your crit chance, negative mastery does reduce whatever it normally does, and negative haste is ignored.
What's the rate for specs not mentioned in the list for the
Geladener Bergkristall
? Examples include Blood DKs, Prot Warriors/Paladins.
Just the base 15.00 RealPPM.
Why does the trinket note that it can stack if the RPPM isn't high enough to allow it to in the first place?
RealPPM isn’t an ICD. Note that the stacking Agi trinket is only 10 sec duration, whereas the stacking Str trinket is 20 sec duration. And remember that haste increases the frequency of procs. Neither of these is expected to stay at max stacks very much of the time. It’s more that it can quite often proc again while it’s already up and by letting it stack, that becomes an awesome occurrence, rather than a disappointing one.
Can the
Geladener Bergkristall
cause a critical strike?
Yes, but it uses your spell crit/hit rates.
One concern from Mistweavers when dealing with
Geladener Bergkristall
is that the Conductive proc would affect
Uralte Lehren des Klosters
.
Yes, the Lightning Strike (
Lightning Strike Charges Trigger
) should trigger
Uralte Lehren des Klosters
. We don’t expect that to be particularly worthwhile though.
Is this RealPPM calculated differently due to being on crit rather than being on hit? Does it account for a characters crit chance in the 1 RPPM or is it just a 1 RPPM that procs on a crit?
Currently, no, the fact that it only procs on crits basically doesn’t matter for more than flavor. However, we’re considering making these multiply the proc chance by your crit chance, so that they get the "more crit = more procs" effect that all proc-on-crit trinkets have had historically. Like I said yesterday, one of the reasons we haven’t posted all of these numbers til now is that they’ve been in flux as we make adjustments like this. This is one such change we’re still considering.
Could you clarify on what trinkets you're talking about specifically? To me "stacking agi trinket" would seem to be describing
Renatakis Seelentalisman
yet the context of the statement seems to indicate you're talking about
Talisman des Blutdurstes
/
Primordius' Talisman der Wut
/
Blick der Zwillinge
.
Sorry for the confusion, I was indeed talking about
Talisman des Blutdurstes
,
Primordius' Talisman der Wut
, and
Blick der Zwillinge
. They all are just RPPM random proc chances, and if the buff is already up when you get another proc, it refreshes and stacks to 2 (or 3, etc).
Renatakis Seelentalisman
,
Legendäre Feder von Ji-Kun
, and
Wushoolays letzte Wahl
all proc a buff that automatically gains a stack every 2 sec (and have ICDs such that it’s not possible for them to proc again while they’re already up). Also, this is a good time to note a nuance with
Filigrane Phiole des Blutsaugers
: its proc’d buff can stack just like
Talisman des Blutdurstes
,
Primordius' Talisman der Wut
, and
Blick der Zwillinge
, up to a max of 3 stacks. We didn’t note that in the tooltip since (apart from tanking large packs of mobs), it would be extremely rare for it to happen.
Esentially, this makes it worth roughly ~half of a generic trinket of similar ilvl, because the proc isn't adding any itemization, unlike every other trinket in existence. If there were agility specs that had huge discrepancies in secondary stat weights (i.e. best stat is 3x+ the average value of the worst two stats) then maybe someone could find some use for it, but, as far as I know, community theorycrafting indicates that this is not the case.
This is a tricky one to balance. As you say, it doesn’t actually increase your total stats, it just converts your (presumably weaker) lower secondary stats into your (presumably stronger) higher primary stats. The larger the difference in value between your best secondary and worst secondaries, and how much of those weaker secondaries you end up with on gear, all factor into this. For many classes, haste/crit/mastery are all actually relatively close in value (despite how much some people scream that stat A is “utter garbage” and the like). In that case, this isn’t much of a DPS gain, on average. However, there’s another nuance to this that complicates things further: many classes can game the proc somehow. Just to pull a random example out of thin air (this may not be a big gain, but it illustrates the point), as an Enhancement Shaman, you could try to line your
Aszendenz
up with a Mastery
Neuerschaffung
. This is definitely one where we’d love to see more theorycrafting.
Update on the RealPPM-OnCrit trinkets,
Blick der Zwillinge
and
Cha-Yes brillante Essenz
: See the previous post for commentary on why, but we’re going to change their proc rate to vary based on your crit chance:
-
Blick der Zwillinge
– RealPPM on critical harmful abilities and spells, periodic spell, and melee/ranged abilities and swings. No ICD.
-
Cha-Yes brillante Essenz
– RealPPM on critical harmful spells and periodic spells. No ICD.
Also, we’re going to try to get
Rune der Neuerschaffung
and
Unfehlbarer Blick des Lei Shen
on Flaskataur for you to try out. We don’t want to make every item in the game accessible (at some point it is possible to spoil the joy of getting loot completely), but those two in particular are unique effects for which we’d love to get more feedback before they drop for "real."
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