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Kommentar von Bananavice

Thank you Blizzard!

This skill will make rogues wanted in raids AND all our aggro problems will be gone. Sometimes feint just isn't enough. Tanks should be happy about us having this ability too.

Yay!

Kommentar von 80192

This spell is replaceing dismantle, and dismantle is now going to be learnable at lvl 20. This spell (tricks of the trade) can't be cast on yourself either.

Kommentar von 132457

"all actions taken for 6 sec afterwards will be transferred to the target"

does this mean that all damage received will be transfered to your target?

Kommentar von XodoK

I also would like to add that this is a wonderful small-scale PvP tool. Buffing your teammate's damage output by 15% for 6 seconds sounds very nice. Your teammate will be able to perform 4 instant cast abilities with awesome buff.
Also I would like to point out no energy cost.

PS A great addition to this ability would be taking it off the GCD, but this could be placed in one of Rogue Glyhs...

Kommentar von Bloodleaf

This is a less effective pulling tool than Misdirect however it is a much better aggro increaser for a already tanking target. That is not to say this skill does not have valid pulling techniques, however rogues lack a strong range ability and you will loose a majority of the extra aggro you are transferring to the tank during the pull.

However if the target is already at the tank or vise versa than this skill becomes extremely viable.

Another use for this spell is to
pull, active tricks and use fan of knives. That will give the tank a huge aoe aggro bonus.

However this will be extremely risky in raids and heroic where one shotting is very possible.

Still very easy to use while combat is already initiated. Good pulling skill for rapid 5 man pulls with the 30 sec CD instead of 2 mins like Misdirect.

Kommentar von supertao

Better than Misdirect o.O

Kommentar von 103890

Following Bloodleaf line:

- Tank pull Boss
- Build some aggro

With 3 points in Master of Subtlety and 5 in Slaughter from the Shadows, Rogue start his dance:

- Premeditation on Boss - 2 CPs;
- Shadow Step;
- Tricks of the Trade the Tank;
- Ambush the Boss - 3 CPs;
- Backstab - 4 CPs;
- Eviscerate.

In 30 secs, build some more CPs and energy, Tricks again, Backstabs and Eviscerates....
Aggro wont be a problem for Rogues anymore.

Kommentar von 205511

ya but hunters can cast it on there pets :)

Kommentar von 27078

I think this ability is the outcome of blizzard's "create more tanks" mission. with a hunter & rogue working together it will be a very hard job to lose a mob in the start of pull. ( assuming all the players have 1/4 brains) .

Kommentar von iBeastMastery

This seems to work like a buffed up version of hunter's misdirection, a very nice addition for rogue's, they finally get a buff!

Also, if a Rogue were to use this ability on a hunter, who has put misdirection on the tank, will the tank be getting all the threat? or will the hunter be getting the rogue's threat, and the tank the hunter's threat?

Kommentar von 122372

This is going to lead to really fun fights (i.e. Warlocks won't have to rely on soulshatter or godly tanks anymore for aggro). This AND misdirect will do a very good job of making the tank's threat skyrocket THEREFORE enabling the raid to go beserk longer AND harder without worrying about aggro. And since even shamans now have a move that reduces threat...I see this move being extremely useful in the attempt to stave off super-powered level 80 dps :D Thank you blizzard.

Kommentar von wye43

This skill is pure evil:

1. Pick victim already having decent threat - not a tank
2. Tricks of the trade on him
3. Blade Furry / Adrenaline rush / Killing Spree in multiple mobs
4. /lol at him dying
5. For added evilness - accuse him of not being able to control his threat.

You can eliminate competition while shinning in dps. The possibilities ... I love it. This is the cunning that is to be expected from a rogue, its perfect.

Just pray you don't have a combat log maniac in your raid spotting you :)

Kommentar von 162546

it depends on your guild. my guild has downed kil'jeaden last week and misdirecting people or BoPping the tank is something that happens almost 1 time a day. it's hilarious if u can stand it. of course it can be annoying if done repeatedly, but it's fun to have a break sometimes.

Kommentar von 70797

Don't want to sound whiny here-i'm sure this skill will become a very essential part of the rogue's utilities in the near future, but I find it a bit funny that Hunters' Camoflague was removed for being too 'rogue-like' yet rogues have and are getting skills similar to that of other classes at the same time. (I know it's not just rogues in that respect, but I find blizzard's reasoning very annoying)

Kommentar von 222119

Let me get this straight:

Every thirty seconds I have to switch targets to use this then switch back?

I mean its a fantastic ability and I don't mean to be a whiny little wuss, but I think the mechanics of it could've been a little smoother. Just to reduce the amount of clicking/macroing to get the ability just right.

Kommentar von 189805

Anyone know if this breaks stealth?

It actually seems like this will be a decent skill for both PVE and PVP, considering that it's a 15% damage buff now.

Kommentar von Eldwenor

I would also like to point out that this given buff last 30 seconds and the cooldown is as well 30 seconds which means(supposing you can't stack the effect) you can cast it on a tank and wait 24 seconds before pulling a devastating ambush then, once the effect fades, renew the effect instantly. In addition, there is a talent in the 41 tier of subtely tree which makes it even more efficient by reducing the cooldown to 20seconds.

Kommentar von Caelrial

As a Hunter myself, I would like to THANK blizz for giving rogues this talent! This really is wonderfull news for a hunter.
First off, This talent IS NOT intended to be used as a pulling tool! Hunters, get that out of your head, we are still the ones that need to be using our MD to pull mobs and bosses.
It IS intended as a group/raid DPS tool.
This talent should be spammed like crazy towards the MT, The more aggro your tank has the more the hunters (and other dps) get to stand back and ping away! 30 seconds for a CD? Awesome! It will be great to see my aggro meter drop down every 30 seconds, I can now save my feign for those crit benders many of us hunters have seen while going through a rotation.
I can't wait to see the damage meters now that I will be able to go all out.

I hope the ranged classes see this as a helpfull ability and the hunters stop crying about rogues taking "our" abilities!

Also, I hope that the rogues do not look at this ability as "why take a hunter, I can CC and MD"

Kommentar von Eldwenor

Ipso facto, this ability can be used as a pulling tool as well as a threat generating raid/party tool(not to mention PVP that is).

It merely has more restrains that the Misdirect ability such as(unless you have premeditation to use Deadly throw but then again) you must sometime pull with Throw which is as efficient as the good ol' warrior's marksman skills or druid... in fact, druid Star/moonfire is better.

Nevertheless, depending on the pull being close to eachother or density, you can figure out a way to pull with this ability, such as showing a little hello to the mob to aggro them and use Killing spree and blade flurry to transfer aggro into threat directly to tank(since the rogue might gets hit in the process he can still use Fan of knife instead which will affect up to 8yards and avoid melee range).

New ability, new wisdom about it. Hunter though have the same difficulty if they want to pull with MD and trap at the same time, but you can place a trap in front of the tank instead of you so while they are going after the tank, one of them gets trapped.

There is no limit to one that looks for a way and there is a huge limit to those looking for excuses.

enjoy WotLK, fellow players!

Kommentar von 222376

Why did Camouflage get removed for being too much like Rogues, yet rogues get a spell that is exactly like Misdirect?
Kinda unfair

Kommentar von 229980

The real use for this skill is going to be the 15% damage increase, which will be put to good use in PvE and PvP.

For PvE, I know that me and the other rogues in our raids will be giving this to each other.

Kommentar von 230476

This is not a pulling move, since if you try to pull with it, you have proxy aggro on everything, but only transferring hate from one target. The mobs, other than the one you're attacking, will make very short work of you.

Think of it as a way to start dpsing immediately. You don't have to wait for sunders or lacerates or whatever. Just buff the tank with it and run in right behind him on the primary target and unload. No worries of pulling hate right off the bat. What it does is makes you more efficient, just pop it on the tank before every pull and dps right after he pulls the group. More up time on dps for you and the group.

Also, the 15% buff to the tank isn't going to be that spectacular, since tank damage isn't that great anyways. So using it over and over prolly isn't necessary unless you've got a tank that really needs the help with threat production.

I suppose the only really good way to pull with this ability against multiple mobs would be to buff the tank and run in with Killing Spree and blade flurry up. Haha, just get a swipe at all the targets at least once, and the tank should have them all. Very very unsafe, but fun to think about.

Kommentar von pygmy

So many things to comment on so little time...

and maybe im not understanding something here but wouldn't shadow step make this a fairly easy way for a rogue to do a pull for a tank?

and as for the Hunters unfairness claims, rogues needed something to make more PVE viable while not being OP for PVP. Not all of us rogues live and die for the arena/BG scene. Maybe this is just my server but I've never seen more than 2 rogues in a 25 man raid and never more than 1 in a 10 man. all other classes I've seen stacked to high heck. Blizz needed to put some things in so rogues would have a chance at some of the end game stuff. I'm not saying anything to Blizz's creativity, but with no obvious buffs, and for the most part single target dps, rogues just got left out of a lot of things.

Hunters didn't need camouflage. Rogues needed something, maybe not this, but something.

Kommentar von 238875

im planning to chain tricks on the rogues in my raids, solely for the DPS buff, im hearing some of the rogues in the top guilds on my server will be trying this tactic. i could care less about putting aggro on to the tank since if i cant manage my own threat then i messed up somewhere its just delaying the inevitible aggro each rogue gets, yes more geared rogues will end up getting less aggro but hey. the only problem with this is that the recieving rogue better be lower on the threat.. if not then they gotta be fast on that vanish button...

this is the macro im going to be using

/cast Tricks of the Trade
/script SendChatMessage ("Tricks of the Trade on you, rip stuff up","WHISPER",nil,UnitName("focus"))

set the rogue/target you will be tricking as your focus, the downside is if your focus dies, you need to quickly reset your focus to the next person. the whisper on the macro will help with coordinating the chain.

took me and my friend 30 minutes to figure out how to whisper your focus target...had to toss in some lua scripting. "Tricks of the Trade on you, rip stuff up" can be modified to any message you want, the rest of the script needs to be exact though (Lua isnt as friendly as other languages seem to be)

overall i think tricks is better exploited as a DPS buff, in certain fights where aggro is wiped then i would definately use this on a tank, but in most fights i think it should be soley abused for DPS

Edit: updated macro to not lose current target- useful for maintaining DPS while using the macro, no need to tab/click back to target

Kommentar von pinch999

It doesn't break stealth

Kommentar von 226081

This is going to be awesome for getting those stray mobs off of your healer when the tank fails to realize he's lost something while pugging.

Kommentar von Erste

Does this skill triggers the global cooldown (GC)? Because if it doesn't, you can make a macro with your opener like this:

#showtooltip <opener>
/cast Tricks of the Trade
/cast <opener>

And you can open with one key press instead of two, having your Tank or DPS in focus target all the time. But if it triggers the GC it can't be done. Anyone knows?

Kommentar von 32973

I will make this combo..

Blade Flurry -> Tricks of the Trade (cast on Tank) -> Killing Spree

Tanks always love this when AE'ing mobs.

Kommentar von 95931

Is there any way ti program a macro for this... Its annoying to select the tank, then ToT.

I mean I know the macro /target X player /cast ToT. Im wondering if there is a possibility to target the tank, who ever he is... exemple:... /target more hp/AC player, /cast ToT.

In the mean time, in raid, we are usualy focus on Ot target too.

For now, im just retyping macro in each instance i go. I find it very usefull to start hitting really strong at start. On aoe pull, I ambush, then FoK... tank got all mob.. very usefull skill.

Kommentar von 259792

The cooldown only starts when you actually attack. If the 30 second buff ends before you attack anything you'll have to wait another 30 seconds until you can use the ability again.

Kommentar von 170073

This actualy has a little aplication in PvP, see a warrior next to you and an enemy in front, use this on him.

He gets 15% damage boost and while you crawl after you should be able to regen that small amount of energy, especialy if you have Overkill.

Basicly any dude can benefit from this in PvP, but I would suggest using on dudes who pop theyr cooldowns (arena) in different kinda PvP you could design a macro whispering him on conjunction that this has been activated on him and advising that he should pop all damage bonuses.

Kommentar von 145753

One other use that I have found for this ability is in 5 man dungeons when the healer gets aggro, pop tott and attack the mob, this is usualy enough to allow the tanks threat to pass the healer.

Kommentar von 168210

that could be useful putting on a hunter that is misdirecting :P

Kommentar von 248849

This skill, coupled with adrenaline rush means you can put out an insane amount of DPS and not worry too much about the threat. Add to that it'll make the tank generate more threat due to the extra damage they're doing and wham, we have raid utility. Nice.

Kommentar von 142604

With the removal of CD on Fan of Knives this ability is a beast for aoe threat generation on your tank who has problem with... well... aoe threat generation, especially for mutilate rogues.
Pop TotT on your tank and start spamming FoK right out of stealth. With Overkill you'll get about 4 FoK uses before tricks fade. That with occasional Cold Blood will not only give your tank solid aggro boost, but will make s&%tloads of damage.
Tank = happy, you = happy, AoE classes = happy

Kommentar von 298170

Tricks of the Trade is it Trade off? Or Rip off?
There is a serious problem with Tricks of the Trade causing wipes. Regardless of the glowing claims surrounding this new misdirect ability – the harsh reality is that once deployed the rogue must show extreme restraint and take no further action until the rest of the party especially the tank has agro secured –if not Tricks of the Trade is sure to backfire.
Case in point – for Old Kingdom our party consisted of the level 78 rogue, two 77 hunters, a level 80 paladin tank and my 79 priest. We knew the rogue was doing something odd but not sure what until moments before we took on a boss, The rogue jumped the gun and attacked the boss - and suddenly our tank was inexplicably incapacitated by a host of rogue related strikes including a sap. Needless to say our tank and dps did not expect this wacky turn of events - and a sapped tank even a level 80 one is useless so everyone except our little "tricky trader" ended up with the galloping aggros. What was most amusing was how this 78 rogue was gleefully tanking the boss without a scratch while every hit made with went directly onto the tank! Aggro yes the sapped tank plenty - but after 6 sec all that agro came roaring back onto the rogue who tried to vanish but died very fast (poor fool). Needless to say we wiped. However to our dismay the rogue did not understand why his method was a problem and kept crowing “It's not my fault! I used Tricks of the Trade”. (sigh) and remained totally convinced Tricks of the Trade now allows him to attack first – sap the tank by proxy and deny that is what got us all killed. After the 3rd time he got us wiped we just had to boot him. I feel sort of sad about that since this rogue was probably just some misinformed kid but see in this forum's posts he’s not alone in his misdirected thinking that Tricks of the Trade is somehow gawd’s gift to tanks. I ask you all to rethink that notion and please understand why many “non-rogues” don’t feel very comfortable having a Tricky Trader Type in the group.

Kommentar von 166299

Is the damage buff from this skill stacks with the attack power Shadowstep buff, making it a total of 35%+ damage?

Kommentar von Cirex

With the addition of a Tricks of the Trade glyph, this ability is becoming more and more interesting for PVP. With the glyph, the bonus damage is 25%. The range could be a problem, since it's just 20 yd, but still worth to have a macro and use this "PVE" skill as much as you can. Perfect to give that edge while bursting someone down, in example, after using KS on the target and before your companion blows all CDs and uses the big weapons.

Tricks indeed...

Kommentar von 134961

"He did it!"

Kommentar von ngen4ev

Rofl, you are only thinkin bout aggro >.< Start thinkin for good tank, that doesnt need that buff for boosting his aggro.
New form of use >
Rogue A creates macro:
/target rogue B
/cast tricks of the trade
/whisper rogue B ToT on you!
/targetlastenemy
Both rogues get buff for 15% dmg for 6 secs and gives nearly same aggro one to other. So with good tank rogues can have like 45 secs that buff for 5 min battle :) Just think how much dmg is that :)

Kommentar von 87957

This actually transfers LESS threat to the target than Misdirection.
Hunters and Rogues, usually, can compete fairly well in Damage Per Second, but not Threat Per Second. A hunter with the same DPS as a rogue will have more TPS than the same rogue.

This is because rogues are designed, by nature, to create less threat than all other classes unbuffed. Without any form of threat reduction or enhancement (such as defensive stance or threat reduction talents), all classes create threat equal to the amount of damage they deal. This is not the case with rogues, however. Rogue threat is calculated to be 0.71 times the damage dealt.

As a result, three shots from a hunter in Misdirect transfers more threat to the target than 6 seconds of multiple attacks from a rogue.

This is balanced by the 15% damage buff. If the rogue will not transfer as much threat, the only way that this can be countered to make it as useful as Misdirection is to increase the amount of threat the target can create on its own.

Kommentar von Fallerup

this should be removed from the game, here is why. As a hunter, I'm utterly annoyed that rogues get a misdirection and we do not get "stealth" ( http://ptr.wowhead.com/?spell=51753 ), or in this case, Camouflage.

Hunters that can't hide while they wait for their pray, what a joke that is. While misdirection is the work of a pickpocket / thief, it should not be given to the rogue at all, it isn't fair! so @ Caelrial: sure, it helps, but it still isn't fair that we do not get an ability that is natural towards our class and they do.

Kommentar von Caribald

Raiderhorns, no. He calculated the INCREASED damage, you calculated the total damage done by the raider for the duration. The raider would still do his 2500 or 1500 if he didn't have the buff.

17250 - 2250 = 15000 damage (2500 dps * 6 seconds)

10350 - 1350 = 9000 damage (1500 dps * 6 seconds)

So both calculations are correct as such, it's just a matter of the words used in the context. The damage (NOT dps, but damage) you get out of the talent on a raider with 2500 dps is then 2250.

Another factor that should not be overlooked is threat. If you do 2000 dps yourself, you will transfer roughly 12000 threat to the target. If this will put him in danger of overaggroing, you might be better off using it on the tank. If the tank has no threat problems though, the best idea would be to use it on the raider with most dps, apart from pet classes if you have their dps merged with the pet. If for example a warlock does 4500 dps and a mage 4000, it might be better using it on the mage, if 1000 of the warlock's dps is from his pet.

Kommentar von Caribald

Does anyone have numbers on if it's worth using TotT on each other as a dps buff, or if you're better off using the energy on a yellow attack? I don't play a rogue myself, but I haven't noticed the rogues in my guild using this on others than the tank as a threat boost in the start of a fight (and on trash). This could also depend on how geared the rogues are I guess. Also, is it on the global cooldown, or could you actually macro something like

#showtooltip
/target
/cast Tricks of the Trade
/targetlasttarget
/cast Eviscerate

?

Kommentar von 369490

As has been said before, talk to your raid leaders and negotiate with your rogues who to TotT during each boss encounter, figure out who are your excellent pure dpsers (not pet dpsers) and give it to them if their threat is low enough (or even salve them during.) putting this on your tank who is doing 2.5k dps will only see an increase of 375dps increase, while on a dpser doing 6k dps will increase it by 900dps for the duration (this is consistent dps over fights not burst dps, try not to give it to a dpser who does 4k normally but has bursts of 10k unless it's his time of burst.)

It all depends, study recount and your raid fights afterwards and find the big hitters each fight and prepare TotT for them each fight, make sure you talk to them and the tanks and the raid leader too, this is the sort of thing that seperates raids that wipe 200 times before a kill and 20 times before a kill.

Kommentar von 301420

Hunters and Rogues, usually, can compete fairly well in Damage Per Second

A good rogue will never lose to a hunter in dps if evenly geared.(Unless it's a ranged friendly encounter)

Kommentar von 230590

there another rogue in the raid? want to gain another 3-5% dps?

after the tank has good agro, just trade tricks of the trade lol, the threat would cancel each other out and you'd get the extra 15% damage 6sec every 30 sec, or at least 3% more (or if you have the glyph it would be 10sec long or 5% more, it used to be 25% instead but over time pretty close from before)

Kommentar von 101266

I could see this being a nice tool if you could get a rogue to use it on a hunter. The hunter can just FD the excess threat off and get a 15% damage boost for a short amount of time.

Kommentar von 446785

Victims of Tricks of the Trade, cannot remove the effect. Happy pulling.

Kommentar von Selendis

Well, how about the idea of buffing 1 top dd in raid from 3 rogues with glyph of tott? :) Imagine mm hunter 10k dee pee ess stay buffed 99% of combat time. 1 skill gives +1.5kdps for raid, +15eng\use for buffer, increasing his own dps and had no bad casualties like overaggro cuz of fd each 30 sec and MD each 30 sec. It seems that rogue, this stealthy, poisoned-dagger wielding rapid-critting class has one of the most powerfull buff in all game lol) As you need 3 rogues to unleash ToTT full power, you need 3 pallys for buff all raid members with required buffs.
Well, guild raid-leaders, dont underestimate your rogues, especially in 3.3.) And Grats to all of us, rogues, with ^^^UP^^^ in this patch, its rlly AWESOME.

Kommentar von 446413

1. Tott someone in your group/raid that you do not like.
2. Use Sprint/Evasion and run to the mobs.
3. Spam FoK, this will make the mobs attack the totted one.
4. Totted guy dies.
5. Vanish.
6. T-bag time.

This is hilarious on the bombbots "frogger" in Mimirons chamber, and every other elite pack when tank is afk.

Kommentar von 161882

enabling the raid to go beserk longer AND harder without worrying

Thats what she said

10 cents says I get downrated for that but I couldnt help myself, it needed to be said

Kommentar von hippossa

some1 alrdy talked about that wobbles.. and we discussed that that is a number one way to get booted and then ignored by 25 people .. additionally.. its pretty childish.. if you dont care about the instance enough that you want to cause a wipe just.. i dunno.... leave?

anyway... i saw a little something with a MD and ToT but what happens if:
a) two rogues tot the same person? still just 15% inc dmg right? not 30% or 15*15? and does he still get both of their threat since it is a buff and if the buff "stacks" then he would be getting twice the dmg increase.

b) rogue a tots the tank, rogue b tots you, do you still get the threat from b's atks or is all threat that would come to you sloughed off to the tank?

Kommentar von 258282

"You dirty ninja! You use dirty tricks!

Quoted from the Shaw movie, Super Ninjas.

Note: The snippit linked does not actually have the part where he exclaims it, that is much earlier in the film

Kommentar von 258282

if used in conjunction with feint will this reduce the targets aggro?

Kommentar von 237563

ok - can you cast it on yourself? for solo or PvP?

Kommentar von 258919

As a tank, I love this spell. Why?

1) Cast Tricks
2) Blow Cooldowns within 6 seconds
3) ?
4) Profit.

The tank has a ton more aggro than they would without this spell, giving all of the other DPSers a bit more room to maneuver if they are just pressing the aggro line. On top of that, the cooldown is relatively short (30 seconds), so this can be used multiple times per a fight in raid to help the tank.

Kommentar von georgie

This brings back some memories...

So back when I played a hunter as my main, me and the hunter class officer of my guild would play tricks on our GM whenever we went to shadow labs.

The critters in shadow labs will attack you if you somehow manage to aggro them and not kill them, (probably works elsewhere, but that's the main place we did it) so we'd wait until he wasn't paying attention, MD him, and then do a jump/distract shot to aggro one onto him, without killing it, to confuse and @#$% him off. :D
(Keep it to critters if ya do this, no need to bump someone's repairs with an elite D: )

My rogue's a belf, so I can arcane torrent for the initial aggro, but not sure if it triggers the 6 sec part or not, and I can't think of any non-damage dealing abilities for rogues that would both set it off and add a sliver of aggro to the target.

Anyone think of an ability that does both and/or know if arcane torrent triggers the 6 sec part? (Keep forgetting to check myself.)

Kommentar von atashe

I actually mentioned to a rogue and hunter the other day in a raid that the rogue could use his 1st TotT on the MM hunter for increased dps (to the hunter).

They were both very confused as to why. For anyone else reading this comment, here's a link as to why serpent sting & chimera shot's refresh works: http://www.warcrafthuntersunion.com/2009/12/chimera-shot-secrets-for-mm-hunters/

For those too lazy to click, here's the key part:

Chimera shot remembers and refreshes any percentage damage modifier from when Serpent Sting was first cast.

That means if you get the 15% damage boost from a rogue’s Tricks of the Trade and you hit Chimera Shot, it will remember and refresh the damage without the 15% boost. However, if you recast serpent sting you’ll get the 15% boost, and every Chimera Shot thereafter will remember and refresh serpent sting with the 15% damage boost, potentially for the entire fight.

To further spell that out -- get TotT on you so you have 15% buff. Cast serpent sting, which will be modified by the 15% buff. Then now, every time you cast Chimera Shot -- which REFRESHES YOUR SERPENT STING -- you are refreshing the 15% buffed Serpent Sting. Caution: If you recast serpent sting for whatever reason w/o the 15% buff, it'll overwrite your 15% buff serpent sting. There's no "strongest win" - it's "most recent" wins.

Kommentar von elitearthas

"Transferred threat is not permanent, and will fade after 30 sec."

Way to go Blizz, tanks are having enough TPS trouble as it is.

Kommentar von 516801

after something like 0.5sec after reading the tooltip of this spell on cataclysm beta i thought of this:

you pull boss normally as in WoTLK. so it means at least 2 rogues and 2 hunter do tricks and MD on your MT.
now we have a tasty 30sec time to let our other tank taunt the boss and the threat is not lost

nerf inc.

You are aware that this skill still function the same in Cata they way it does now. BUT instead of the threat being permanent it will just fade away. So to follow you example after the 30 seconds is up on the 2 mds and the 2 tricks cast your tank will LOSE ALL THE THREAT GENERATED BY THE ATTACKS. There is no tasty 30 seconds of anything, its a 30 second countdown until the tanks hopes to hell that he made enough threat to offset the loss of threat he is about to take.

Kommentar von 485629

It should be significantly more useful to buff a dpser after the original pull for the dps boost, since the threat given will eventually disappear. The problem will instead be finding a dpser who isn't already threat capped on the tank given the change to threat mitigation.

Unfortunately, the change also creates a problem of a dpser staying well within the Tricks + Base threat of the main tank, but having an overabundance of threat as soon as the 30 seconds are over. Only the extra threat from the bonus 15% damage for the tank would remain, which is still a nice boost, but I expect more than a few dead squishies.

Kommentar von Dreamender

#showtooltip
/cast Tricks of the Trade; Tricks of the Trade;

Will cast Tott on either a selected friendly target or the target's target (generally your tank) if whatever you have selected is hostile.

Kommentar von 448060

The mechanics behind misdirection changed in Cataclysm. Before Misdirection threat was a permanent transfer of threat. Now it's temporary and the transferred threat fades away over time. Same thing with Tricks of the Trade.

Why is this change a big deal?

Most of the time it's not a big deal. But in the specific case where there is a Misdirection plus a tank swap PLUS another tank swap -back- to the first tank (aka a double tank swap) it ends up being a misdirection of doom. This is due to the Tank2 grabbing the threat of Tank1 plus the temporary threat of the hunter and making that threat permanent to Tank2. However Tank1 continues to have their threat decay because it was temporary hunter threat.

If Tank1 taunts back during this decay period then Tank1 gets Tank2's threat permanently BUT with a big catch! The catch is that as Tank1 is trying to generate aggro to stay above Tank2 while they are slowly losing 4 sec of a hunter's burst threat. Another way of thinking about it is if you use a Misdirect during a double tank swap it's just like misdirecting the wrong tank during a normal tank swap.

So if you know there's a double tank swap* within 30 seconds it's a bad idea to use misdirection on the tanks. You might be able to put it onto a non-tank target but the tanks don't want it. Same thing applies to Tricks of the Trade.

*Definition of a double tank swap: Situation where a tank purposely loses aggro and then that same tank regains aggro shortly after.

Kommentar von 749936

@ above...

It can still be used well in the above situation. Mostly because threat swaps are pemanent, and misdirection isn't. There's two ways you can have MD or ToT help your tank taunt swap.

1. Time the Taunt Swap just before MD/Tricks ends. If Tank2 times his taunt for just before MD/Tricks ends, he'll retain perma threat from MD/Tricks.

Tank 1 can now go deal w/ whatever it is he needs to deal w/. (Adds/Whatever) and he can be MD'ed/Tricks'ed there as well.

When Tank1 returns, his aggro is going to be abysmal due to the faded MD/Tricks and not being on boss the entire time. This does not matter. This is because players taunting gain all of the aggro of their target's target. In order to make sure the second tank doesn't pull back too soon (due to Tank2 generating more TPS), either tell Tank2 to lay off for a bit, salv him or MD/Tricks Tank 1 again.

2. The other way this can be useful is to automate a tank swap. I.E. If you know when a swap is going to happen and you have 30s notice you can save a tank a taunt. Just have tank 1 watch Omen and keep Tank2 @ 105% of his threat. Cast MD/Tricks 30-35s before the taunt swap needs to happen. Now when MD/Tricks expires, Tank 2 should climb from 10% of Tank1`to anywhere from 108-120% depending on TPS and the strength of Tricks/MD.'

The one question I have is this. Does Misdirection actually transfer all gained threat or only threat gained via damage done. I ask because it might be beneficial to have the rogue Tricks the Hunter at the pull. Not only will this combine Tricks + MD (I know you lose the last 2 sec of Tricks) but it'll also give the hunter a 15% dmg boost which will increase the strength of his MD, this can be magnified by using other techniques such as pre-potting, proc trinkets, and other damage buffs. I dont think you'd want to combine it with Rapid Fire right off the bat, as I save my cooldowns for about 10s into the counter when my stacking buffs (see Fluid Death, Tia's Grace) have had time to build and I still have 15s left on my pre-pot.

Kommentar von 448060

If there is a tank swap, then by that time the two tanks have plenty of threat over anyone else, rendering the misdirect essentially useless

Yes, the two tanks have plenty of threat over anyone else EXCEPT EACH OTHER.

The tanks will skyrocket their threat past the rest of the raid as they use burst threat abilities when it's their turn. However they will still have very similar threat to each other. Any disparities in threat tend to get evened out as they taunt. So one tank ends up having about 90% or more of the other's threat at any given time.

Fast forward 30 seconds after that hunter cast misdirect. "Transferred threat is not permanent, and will fade after 30 sec." Now you have the burst threat of a hunter fading off the tank. If you are at 100% threat, and the next highest threat is at 90% (another tank) and you suddenly lose a huge chunk of threat then the other tank is going pull when he's not supposed to which is exceedingly bad on these types of fights. (Yes, Chimaeron but it's a very common mechanic used in every tier of content.) Two tanks swapping a single target back and forth generally have a good reason for doing so. Typically it's a very bad thing if the wrong tank pulls aggro... that's the reason for 2 tanks on 1 target. Even 1 second of the wrong tank with aggro often means a complete raid wipe.

While it's bad to misdirect/ tricks of the trade the tanks in these cases, the tanks should have a big threat lead over everyone who's not a tank. So it will be safe to ToT up a dps without fear of pulling aggro.(##RESPBREAK##)136##DELIM##hatman555##DELIM##

Kommentar von Hotice2104

I like, understand, and fully appreciate the above posting by Brunpal and I see the logical jump he made to put it here. However this is the Tricks of the Trade page. Such posting should and need to be posted on their relevant and corresponding links to keep things clearly defined. The theory behind his logistics are sound; they are just on the wrong thread (those that downrated on the Misdirection thread are mostly hurting themselves by not understanding this concept).

Thats said the idea you post about is also not in perfect alignment from a Misdirect to our Tricks of the Trade. First is the minor note that TotT lasts for 6 seconds rather than an MD's 4 (small and not really addressing the point I am making but a difference and should be noted). Second and more importantly is the innate damage buff the target receives.

While Tank 1 in your scenario is and would still be fighting the threat decay falloff during a rotation of 2 tanks in under 30 seconds from the 6 second burst from a TotT his initial threat was buffed by the pure damage increase giving him more to work with. Still a sub-optimal situation to be sure and yes I understand that Tank 2 still had to over compensate that added threat from the damage gained from TotT for the initial taunting but it is these distinctions we need to make everything clear and understood.

The point you make about the 2 Tank frequently being at 90% is true and something to watch however each tank should be paying careful attention to their threat levels and be able to to simply stop/cease all damage on the boss for a few seconds while tank 1 is adjusting his own threat levels. Meters such as omen make this extremely easy to do and any tank worth using in a raid should know it or some other tool inside and out.

***A note to all new Rogues reading these comments: These abilities are not the same and should not be treated entirely as if they were. This will only lead to a misinformed community of players and a misunderstanding of what their own class has to offer.***

Kommentar von ohtextex

Forgive my ignorance, I've just renewed my account and I hope to be treated with a little patience.

Transferred threat is not permanent, and will fade after 30 sec.

Does this mean that the threat you threw onto your target for the 30 seconds comes back to you? Or could someone perhaps shed a little light onto this one for me?

Thanks!

And I appreciate seeing the macros being shared on this thread. I'll certainly be utilizing those.

Edit: Mistakingly said "6 seconds" and replaced with the proper "30 seconds" (outside of the quotes)

Kommentar von 804492

Ever since the Tier 12 Raid Set came out in patch 4.2, Tricks of the Trade is a must because of the bonus of the Vestments of the Dark Phoenix four piece set bonus.

Set Bonuses

Wearing more pieces of this set will convey bonuses to your character.

A 25% increase to one of your combat ratings at random for 30 seconds is, in my opinion,
HIGHLY worth spamming Tricks of the Trade.

I believe this bonus was added to encourage the rogue to use Tricks of the Trade in order to increase raid DPS and to transfer "aggro" to the tank, or whomever it was cast upon.

*Edit: If there are any grammatical or spelling errors, please feel free to let me know and I'll fix the error.
*Edit 2: I caught a few grammatical errors.

Kommentar von 596475

In case it might help some, I'm currently using this macro:

#showtooltip Tricks of the Trade
/clearfocus
/cast Tricks of the Trade
/focus

This will set a focus target if they're friendly, cast tricks on the focus target if it's set (and in group), or clear the focus target if nothing is targetted (used noharm as it stops it clearing if you're hitting something).

It's probably not perfect but it's been working well for me. Means I can just bind it to my 5th mouse button and it's no hassle to use all the time.

Kommentar von Vrominelli

I keep trying to work out everything for if (and I do mean IF) rogues ever became tanks for some odd reason, and I keep encountering this one spell messing everything up...
Imagine if you will... You are beating a boss and the rogue tank pops this on you, causing your threat to skyrocket and kill you.

All I can think of that would fix this problem is if there was a glyph of reversed tricks that would make TotT siphon threat from the tricked member instead of dumping it onto them.
Downrate and/or yell at me that "rogue are not tank gtfo" if you want, I thought I'd just share this for anyone else interested in trying to figure out rogue tanking...

Edit: obviously written while half asleep... tightened up the grammar a little.
Also, maybe a glyphed version would replace the +15% damage increase with small damage reduction bubbles or something?

Kommentar von Ondersjaak

I recently obtained the 2-set bonus of T13 (Item - Rogue T13 2P Bonus (Tricks of the Trade)) which requires using Tricks of the Trade on cooldown as a new DPS boost. It took me a while to find the right macro, but eventually I found an excellent one on wowwiki.com and would like to share it with you:

/run ToT = UnitName("target")
/run if not InCombatLockdown() then EditMacro('TotT', nil, nil, '#showtooltip\n/cast Tricks of the Trade', nil); print('Tricks of the Trade set to : ' .. ToT); else print('Cannot change TotT now!'); end;

Here's how it works:

Step 1: Create a blank macro named TotT
Step 2: Create the above macro named as you please, for this example SeTTotT

Usage :
Target the player you want to set as your Tricks of the Trade recipient and use the set macro (SeTTotT), you will see a chatlog message confirming the macro worked. Use the TotT macro whenever you want to use Tricks of the Trade.

This macro lets you set a target before combat on which you will be able to use Tricks of the Trade during a boss encounter with just a single click. It's been a huge help to me!

Kommentar von Vorishgo

By 6.0.2 patch, now only transfer the threat you deal to selected target. No damage increase to selected target.

Kommentar von Jakyap

So I was in a Mythic+ and I noticed that I couldn't use tricks on our Guardian druid tank anytime he was in bear form and he had the challenge mode skin on. Idk why that would make a difference but every single time it would say "invalid target." Anyone else in the group I tried using it on worked immediately. Any clue why that is? Is it a bug?

Kommentar von Tecfan

Will not work on targets who has the Neuraler Stummschalter buff.

Kommentar von Gershuun

Won't work on people with Neurale Autonomie equipped, go figure.

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