Kommentare

Kommentar von 292710

Is this trinket really that good? At 5 stacks, it gives 125 spell power. The one from OS25, at 10 stacks, gives 200 spell power.

I guess the question is - is the loss of 75 spell power worth the 87 crit? I suppose it depends on your class/spec and the rest of your gear, but it is certainly debatable and not necessarily a great trinket. Probably best for locks, mages, boomkins, and most healing classes.

Kommentar von 238477

From an itemization standpoint, 87 crit rating is worth approximately 103 spellpower.

How did you come up with that number?

Cause I don't know any class where crit outweighs spellpower, or anywhere close.

Lets just do a basic math look, lets say your using a spell with a 3 second cast, and it hits for 4000 unbuffed. 87 crit rating is 1.9% crit, but we'll round up to a nice even 2%. That says in 100 casts, your going to get 2 extra crits, for an extra 8000 damage. If you add 103 spellpower to those same 100 casts, your going to gain 10,300 damage. Clearly the crit rating is inferior. Now lets assume this person is not very well geared and is only running 25% crit rating. 25% of those hits crit, therefore that 103 spellpower becomes 206 for those 25 crits. That means in 100 casts with 25% crit the extra 2% crit adds 8000 damage and now the 103 spellpower is adding 12875 damage. Now lets throw in something basic, like a coeffecient of a long cast spell like oh say starfire. For balance druids it's 120% coeffecient, so that 103 spellpower is actually worth 123.6 (well call it 123). So on 100 casts, 25% of which that crit that 103 spellpower is adding 15,375 damage, and the 2% crit is adding 8000 still. It's nearly double the effectiveness before raid buffs and debuffs, etc. Not to mention crit has zero benefit to curse of agony, shadow word: pain, insect swarm, etc. Spell power benefits dots, crit doesn't.

87 crit rating is nowhere near 103 spellpower.

It is also worth noting that spellpower simply increases the damage or healing a spell does by a set amount, while crit increases by a percentage. Because of this, items with ratings generally scale better than items with spell or attack power.

I'm not sure you know what you are trying to say here.
Everything increases dps by a %. Crit rating translates to a percentage which translates to a dps increase. Spellpower translates to a dps increase. The end result is the same, it's just a matter of which increases it more.

We'll use the above as an example.
100 casts of 4000 dmg spell at 25% crit rate (3 sec cast) = 400,000 / 300 seconds = 1333 dps
100 casts of 4000 dmg spell at 27% crit rate (3 sec cast) = 508,000 / 300 seconds = 1693 dps
100 casts of 4123 dmg spell at 25% crit rate (3 sec cast) = 510,450 / 300 seconds = 1728 dps
So the overall dps increase between the damage and the crit isn't that great in a 5 minute fight with straight casting, no other factors and no blood lust. (27% increase VS 29.6% increase in dps). So when you say that one increases by a set amount and one increases by a percentage and that the "rating" items are better, in the end they both increase DPS by a percentage. You take your 2% crit and I'll take the 103 spellpower.

Kommentar von 34089

10 crit rating costs the same number of itemization points as 12 spellpower. This does not reflect the actual dps/hps value of the stats, merely the number of each stat budgetted for an item of a given ilvl.

This is best demonstrated with an extreme example. Lets say you have 1 million spellpower. Now you add, say, 120 spellpower. Will this make a significant increase in damage? No; its an increase in spellpower (not necessarily damage) of 0.012%. Now, an approximately equal value of crit (2%) is added instead. This is more or less a 2% bonus depending on your talents, but always over 1%, and this is on base damage in addition to spellpower. This is clearly superior (about 100 times better) to the spellpower, which is about a 0.01% damage bonus.

This effect holds true at reasonable gear levels as well: you will notice that Feral Druids place much less value in AP than Rogues do. This is because the amount of AP they can get from gear is just a drop in the bucket compared to what they get from their weapons.

I'm not so insecure that I can't handle being flamed on the interwebs, but I would greatly prefer that if you're going to attack my ideas, you make sure you fully understand what I'm saying so your long, thought-out post actually adds something to the discussion at hand.

And, as always: You can deny the words you hear, but not the truth I speak.

Kommentar von miko1

Does the stacking buff from this stack with the one from https://www.wowhead.com/wotlk/item=40432 ?

Kommentar von 238477

So to prove your point, you use an absurd, unobtainable example?
That's easy enough to do. How about your at 100% crit rate, and you add 2% crit, what's your gain? Nothing. If you add 120 spell power, what's your gain? 240 damage on every cast (if 2x crit). Therefore it's infinitly more valuable since adding more crit has no benefit.

This effect holds true at reasonable gear levels as well:

This right here is an example of why I responded to you. You make a broad, general statement like that, and I'm afraid people are going to take what you say as true. You take an absurd example to show how 2% crit is 100 times better than 120 spell damage, and then say that effect holds true. The theory itself is sort of true, but given that you only use half the equation, it's not even really that valid. You don't take into account # of casts, spell being cast and lots of other factors, things that matter. So I'm afraid someone is going to read your sentence and think, wow I should gear for crit because it's way better than spellpower. And they'll end up with high crit and low spellpower and wonder why their dps is terrible.

Your statement about it being 100 times or even better at all is not true at actual gear levels.

you will notice that Feral Druids place much less value in AP than Rogues do. This is because the amount of AP they can get from gear is just a drop in the bucket compared to what they get from their weapons.

...
Armory some decently geared feral druids, they run 4-5k feral AP unbuffed (far far more than that raid buffed). So 2k AP from your weapon is less than half of your AP. Even w/ Journey's End at 2353 AP, it's a chunk of their AP, but not in the exaggerated sense you describe.

If 5k feral AP and 2k is from the staff, where does that other 60% come from? Gear.
That's more than "a drop in the bucket". Again you make statements that I'm afraid people are going believe.

I'm not so insecure that I can't handle being flamed on the interwebs, but I would greatly prefer that if you're going to attack my ideas, you make sure you fully understand what I'm saying so your long, thought-out post actually adds something to the discussion at hand.

I prefer my "long thought out post" to your generalized broad statements that don't really address what matters, actual dps output. My post was in response to the general downplay of spellpower in your first post and promotion of anything with the word "rating" without any real reason as to why.

Kommentar von gcbirzan

My point was not that crit is better than spellpower. It was that crit scales better than spellpower

That is incorrect. If anything, crit rating generally scales worse than spell power. But it depends on your class/spec. What is true is that neither (well, crit does, but it depends on wether your class/spec gets any particular buff/gain from a crit. For fire mages and holy paladins, this is true. Not really sure about other classes/spec, though) scales with itself, but with your other stats. So if you have 1k spell power, 1 point of crit rating is going to be worse than if you had 2.5k spell power. And if you have 50% crit chance, 1 point of spell damage is going to be better than if you had 30%.

Kommentar von 354660

Does anyone know if PW:S and PoM are counted as "healing" spells or not? I know Majestic Dragon Figurine was bugged for the longest time to not include things such as PoM, but hopefully they've fixed that by now.

Kommentar von 170072

This would be a great upgrade from Illustration of the Dragon Soul if you, like me, are looking for that much needed crit at this point.
This item and Illustration of the Dragon Soul DO stack however with the nerf to MP5, if youre a shaman like me you'd rather have Energy Siphon

Kommentar von 335571

Disc priests <3 crit and I want one either way. I'm curious if anyone can confirm whether this is triggered by PW:S. Anyone know?

Kommentar von 117913

Great for Disc Priests

Penance will apply 3 stacks per use.

Kommentar von 223540

We can look at Illustration as a straight 200 Spell Power. At 1.71 DPS per SP, this is 342 DPS. Comparitively, this can be modeled as a straight 125 Spell Power and of course a passive 87 Crit. This is 213.75 DPS and 130.5 DPS for the crit (1.5 crit : 1 DPS). This gives us 344.25 DPS.

If for you 1.5 crit = 1 dps, the 87 crit on the Eye is only 58 dps. Your calculation is for 1 crit = 1.5 dps.
So, 213.75 + 58 = 271.75 for the Eye compared to 342 of the Illustration.

Kommentar von cawfee

While this may seem like a sidegrade to Sundial of the Exiled at first, the proc only has a 10% rate and a 45 second internal CD, whereas the Eye guarantees a solid 125 additional spellpower (almost) unconditionally, making it more reliable overall. This comment explains the Sundial mechanics nicely so you can compare it yourself.

Kommentar von 129672

This trinket is best in slot pre hard modes along with Flare of the Heavens for mages Fireball speced.

Kommentar von 165064

Illustration of the Dragon Soul is still better than this trinket if 1 crit equals 0.8 spell power for you.

87*0.8 = 69.6

69.6+125 = 194.6

Kommentar von 366957

Healing Stream Totem triggers this trinket when you put it down, so as a shaman it is very simple to get the stacks full before a fight even starts since it is an inexpensive totem that can be spammed 5 times. And as a side note, Magma Totem also triggers it (when placed down).

Kommentar von mestar99

The mage spell Blizzard (and supposedly other channeled aoe spells like Rain of Fire, Hurricane, etc) will not proc a stack of the spell.

Not sure if this is a bug but it basically makes you lose your stack after you are done aoe'ing

Kommentar von 126888

Everyone is saying "Use this over Illustration of the Dragon Soul," but is there anything stopping you from using both at the same time? Cause I don't see anything in the comments here or on Illustration's comments page saying that you can't.

Kommentar von Zortrax

Arcane missiles procs all 5 stacks of this trinket.

Kommentar von Ashael

I prefer this over Illustration personally, as a human in pvp it rocks.

Kommentar von 403975

You guys are missing the big picture. You people look at the trinkets like once your wearing them you automatically get 200sp from Illustration of the Dragon Soul and you get 125 from Eye of the Broodmother but you don't. The spell power is applied in stacks so what if you lose the stacks (From AoEing, channeling, or w/e)? Then you lose all that spell power and your dps drops. So which one do you think would be easier to replace those stacks with?

Option A: Illustration of the Dragon Soul 200sp over 10 Stacks

Option B: Eye of the Broodmother 125sp over 5 Stacks: For those of you having a hard time picking its this one

Not only do you get the sp with less stack you also get a decent amount of crit and for those of you who think Illustration of the Dragon Soul is better, its not. Don't get me wrong its a good trinket but why would Blizz put a trinket in Ulda if they didn't think it was better.

PS. For the people who get mad because I told you off don't downgrade me, let the people with a sensible brain do that.

Kommentar von 423713

It procs off each tick of Arcane Missles.

Kommentar von 458014

Crit does scale better than SP. Say you have 1000 sp and 50%crit and that you are considering a spell with a coefficient of 1 and an initial (i.e. before bonus damage) damage output of 500. So that your spell's actual damage output is:

500 + (1000 x 1) = 1500

Now your crits will be outputing 150% or 200% of this and will occur for roughly 50% of your casts if you are casting for long enough, so if you just spam your spell your average damage output per cast will be:

1500 x (1.5 x 0.5 + 1 x 0.5)= 1500 x 1.25 = 1875 for 150% crit damage
1500 x (2 x 0.5 + 1 x 0.5) = 1500 x 1.5 = 2250 for 200% crit damage

If we add 100 sp we increase the damage output per cast without a crit to:

500 + 1100 = 1600, a gain of around 7%

and average damage to 2000 or 2400, obviously the percentage gain is the same.

If we have 2000 sp instead of 1000 to start with and we do the same thing we get our average damage output going from 3125 to 3250 or from 3750 to 3900, gains of 4% (which is less than 7%).

If you instead add 1% crit your average damage output per cast will increase by 0.5% if you crit for 150% damage, and by 1% if your crits hit for 200%.

If you start with 75% crit and add 1% your increase in damage output will again be 0.5% or 1%.

The fact that the gain from sp decreases as your sp stacks, whilst the gain from crit does not change as it stacks, is what is meant when people say 'Crit scales better than sp'.

You can fiddle with coefficients and so on, but the effect is not going to disappear.

Kommentar von 219437

It procs off from Life Tap and Health Funnel - a nice way to stack it up to 5 times before the fight.

Kommentar von 85677

As a disc priest i got this trinket in Ulduar. The trinket is really great and really easy to keep stacked to 5 times.

If the buff falls off dont rush to reapply it. Reason it fell off is bc the fights arent quick enough in trash or the maintank isn't taking much damage then the large amount of spell power isn't really needed. A quick way to buff it back up incase someone does get into trouble is shoot prayer of mending renew penace now you have 5 stacks. What I like to do is Prayer of mending renew (either one first) penace then power word shield. if they need more heals you get the crit bonus from weaken soul (woot 4%!)plus they get the bonus spell power to the shield so its up longer. If it drops fast and prayer of mending cool down is up shoot them another one. 4k instant heal is always a good thing and if it crits BUBBLE! Just a few things for you disc priests to think about. I hope it helps!

Kommentar von Garris

Wold I be right in assuming that this would be a good replacement for Sundial of the Exiled, if you don't have access to either Dying Curse or Pandora's Plea if you only run 10s? the Spellpower on it is less, yes, but the proc stacks and you can keep it up more, where with the Sundial, it's random.

Kommentar von 125795

Spellpower trinkets for druids:
200 spellpower Illustration of the Dragon Soul
140 spellpower Show of Faith +66mp5
136 spellpower Pandora's Plea +27mp5
125 spellpower Eye of the Broodmother +1.9%crit
111 spellpower Forethought Talisman +20mp5
111 spellpower Titan-Forged Rune of Audacity
110 spellpower Sif's Remembrance +53mp5
106 spellpower Je'Tze's Bell +34mp5
100 spellpower Darkmoon Card: Illusion +25mp5
100 spellpower Talisman of Resurgence +32mp5
98 spellpower Embrace of the Spider +92haste rating
98 spellpower The Egg of Mortal Essence +92haste rating
93 spellpower Forge Ember +1.59%crit
75 spellpower Soul Preserver +80mp5
68 spellpower Binding Light +57mp5
68 spellpower Energy Siphon +54mp5
68 spellpower Futuresight Rune +12mp5
63 spellpower Redeemer's Alchemist Stone
62 spellpower Memento of Tyrande +26mp5
59 spellpower Mercurial Alchemist Stone +50haste rating
58 spellpower Winged Talisman +36mp5

Kommentar von brucek2

The Blizz loot system would not allow me and another mage in a pug Uld 10 to roll Need on this (dice icon was illuminated but nothing happened when pressed.) Both druids could. Not sure if this is a bug in 3.3 or an intentional allocation decision?

Kommentar von DQuixnot

Not sure if this has been commented on before, so just in case... there are some spells besides damaging and healing spells that can make this proc, useful for the start of a fight, having the full effect of the trink right away. For instance, as a mage, I cast slow fall five times right before the start of a big fight. It stacks the effect of Eye of the Broodmother. Shrug.

Kommentar von 371161

As of patch 3.3.3, you can no longer set this trinket off with non-damage/healing spells (i.e. Life Tap).

The free ride is over..

Kommentar von belkrast

It seems that now this does not proc off Levitate anymore.... no more easy stacking up for no mana (relative to regen) before a fight.

However, it seems that Renew ticks will now refresh the duration every time it ticks. Of course, in the middle of a battle, it makes little difference, but interesting to note.

Kommentar von TheMaelstorm

This trinket procs from Flash of Light+Sacred Shield HoT, so you can get your stacks up before a fight by casting it and keep them on all times with little mana.

Not sure how viable generally it is for pallies, but using it since I haven't gotten anything else that is good.

Kommentar von 292710

As a warlock, I am disappointed that this no longer procs off Life Tap, which is what I used to stack it up immediately before a fight.

However, I discovered a new way to stack it up pre-battle. Lifeblood will proc this with each tick, giving u 5 stacks by the time it expires.

Cheers, alchemists.

Kommentar von Hunterjuan

Since the latest patch, I do not see it proc off of Power Word: Shield any longer. Does anyone have the same experience?

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