Kommentare

Kommentar von danroe

108 intellect and 751 spellpower on proc? Juicy for everybody

Kommentar von 329683

I would think this would interest any caster, not just holy paladins.

Kommentar von 2OfDiamonds

I think this trinket could be very good or even GODLY for <my specific caster class>, since I use intellect for mana aswell as mana regen, and heal or do damage with the spellpower proc.

<My specific caster class> will surely have precedence over other classes -despite the fact that they also use intellect and spellpower- because I obviously benefit the most from this particular trinket.

Kommentar von Reeve

As a Holy paladin, I'll stick with my DMC:G.

For me the debate is SotD vs Pandora's Plea.

+108 int is +136.62 int for a Holy paladin (Kings+Divine Intellect). +136.62 int is 27.3 SP from Holy Guidance. +136.62 int is .82% crit, and about 2,049 mana.

2,049 mana is + 5.1 Mp/1 from Replenishment (or 25.5 Mp/5), and 512.25 mana over 15 seconds from Divine Plea--or 170.75 Mp/5 for 15 seconds. That's ~56.9 Mp/5 if DP is popped every minute.

Total: 25.5 Mp/5+56.9 Mp/5 = 82.4 Mp/5.

2,049 mana is 5.12 Mp/5 mana for Arcane Torrent if used every 2 minutes.

The +95 crit rating from SotD is 2.07% crit. SotD's proc is ~83 Mp/5 (~54 sec interval).

So final numbers:

SotD has 1.25% more crit than Pandora's Plea, but the Mp/5 gain is nearly the same (not factoring in regen from Illumination).

The larger mana pool, 27.3 SP and huge SP proc from Pandora's Plea makes it more appealing to me.

Last edit:

Also based on fuzzy math, Pandora's Plea proc is about 141 passive SP (590 SP * 10 / (45 ICD + 10 sec proc buffer * 1.5 gcd)).
Total ~168.3 passive SP (27.3+141) for Holy paladins.

Kommentar von NightmareMJ

As a reminder intellect also grants a fair amount of crit in addition to mana and mana regen.

Now Balance druids and Elemental shamans gain the most +crit% from point of intelect(and there for most use) out of this trinket... however resto shamans, holy paladins, and disc priests all gain something valuable deep in their builds from intellect; Priests gaining +15% int which normalizes their crit point from each point of int and total mana regen as well to a normalized level with shaman/druid; Shamans gain Spell power from Int; Holy Paladin gains spell power and inmproved int from int, normalizing them to be on par with the others.

As for purely damage dealing. Only mages and "shockadins" gain from int. Warlocks gaining terrible crit from int(as well as having no need for a mana pool, gg life tap, but you can take this if you never want to be healed again by your healers...ever...).

So obviously if using a priority of loot system for this item i will break it down by tier for CLASS not spec.
(this is OBVIOUSLY assuming you have the gear already to raid this instance and thus have a very large mana pool for <class> anyway, classes that do not gain mana from intellect but can still use spell power are NOT included)
Top
- Disc Priests, Balance Druids, Resto Shaman, Arcane Mage
Upper Middle
-Paladin, Elemental Shaman, Mage.
Lower Middle
-Holy Priest, Shadow Priest, Enhancement Shaman, Hybrid Shaman.
Bottom
-Warlock

Technically a Retribution Paladin should NOT roll on this but seeing as how it is a hybrid class i placed it with holy, protection and hybrid built paladins for logicality. Hybrid builds are clumped into non specificity class builds are noted.
Any class not listed, is not listed for obvious reasons.

and to save time... CLEARLY A HUNTER TRINKET.

Kommentar von Blackmist

As a resto shaman, I find the current raid trinkets pretty underwhelming. I'm using two of The Egg of Mortal Essence, Soul Preserver and Figurine - Sapphire Owl depending on the situation. Illustration of the Dragon Soul would be a nice situational trinket I guess, but there's scant little else.

Resto shaman maths for this item?

108 Intellect (raid buffed and with the right talents) gives...
1965 mana
20 Spell Power
24.5 mp5 (from Replenishment)
7.86 mp5 (from Mana Tide)
0.786% Spell Crit

Assuming a 45s internal cooldown on the proc, that is roughly equivalent to 140 spell power.

That's pretty good in my opinion, and certainly better than any of the other trinkets I mentioned.

Kommentar von Stryper7

I would want this just to be able to stand next to my rival disc priests, holy paladins, and arcane mages and have them oogle at my mana pool just for once.

Kommentar von QuestionC

Drops from Mimiron in 25M Ulduar

Kommentar von 2OfDiamonds

Im wondering, what is Pandora pleaing for? To keep her box closed?

(no pun intended!)

*edit* i was actually wondering, there really was no pun intended, but downrate if you want to.

Kommentar von 352667

I have this trinket and it is great. However for full disclosure the proc it gives is actually 751 spell power and not 850 like the item states.

Kommentar von 27710

It might not be best in slot (since we're all still digesting all the new gear, and have yet to discover some)

I think you answered your own question, see also the sarcastic post:

I think this trinket could be very good or even GODLY for <my specific caster class>, since I use intellect for mana aswell as mana regen, and heal or do damage with the spellpower proc.

<My specific caster class> will surely have precedence over other classes -despite the fact that they also use intellect and spellpower- because I obviously benefit the most from this particular trinket.

from above

Kommentar von 356467

there is no valid argument for an item being the best for any specific class. the reason that this is the case is that if the item directly benefits the class/spec combination more than another item does, then the item is beneficial to that class. nobody can fairly state an item is better for them because of their class/spec combination unless they are competing with a class who has absolutely no use for the item whatsoever. it's just not proper. it's selfish and inconsiderate and often times quite immature. it makes that person look like a spoiled brat. it's also quite possible that that impression isn't too far from the truth.

however, you can say it's better for you if it replaces an item worse than any one else's item that would be replaced by it. of course, that only matters in certain raids and groups, and is still selfish to say unless the way that items are distributed is by the greatest upgrade.

i do a lot of theorycrafting, and this is an item i would use as any caster, be it an elemental shaman, a restoration druid, a holy priest, a holy paladin, an arcane mage, a balance druid, a restoration shaman, a discipline priest, a fire mage, a frost mage, and maybe even a warlock or shadow priest. the last ones i'm not sure about since i don't theorycraft enough warlocks and shadow priests to know them by heart.

even if the item could be proven to "benefit" a certain class more than any other class, there is no way anyone can say that it should go to that class more often than others simply because of that.

protection paladins may or may not need this, but due to the fact that it could benefit them in threat generation while having zero stamina, health, armor, defense rating, parry rating, dodge rating, block rating, block value, or other tank-related stats means that i will not include them in either the "this is a must have" class/spec combo list or in the "why'd you roll for this?" list

the only class/spec combinations that i would say this isn't validly for are:
all warriors
all death knights
all rogues
probably ret paladins, since i doubt that any truly skilled player will have horrible mana issues and need to use spell power as a physical dpser
probably enhancement shamans, same reason as ret paladins
definitely hunters ---> they don't even use spell power, so if they want intellect so badly, they can go get the card, but mana should be stable without it. soo much intellect on mail gear now...
feral druids ---> theyre physical dps and shouldn't be switching to a true caster in a raid while still being in feral gear and feral spec'd

i'm simply stating what i'd consider common sense and what most people here who are not saying "this is best for my class" seem to be saying.

i would say that any healer who wants/needs more mana and (assuming you get one proc per minute) an average of 141 and 2/3 passive spell power --- also assuming the tooltip is correct and the bug is fixed --- should roll for this

likewise for any pure spell-based dps class with the same wishes and needs; most people would prioritize healers first and dps second, but that is for the people who choose who gets what to decide, it benefits both healers and spellcaster dpsers a lot

again, the only people who truly have no real right to roll on this are pure physical dpsers; enh shamans and ret paladins have a lot of better options for items than this, but they have at least the right to ask if it truly is an upgrade great enough to make it fair for pure spell dpsers in the raid. (i.e. a enh/ret dpser with a 70 BC green tank trinket compared to a spellcaster with a level 80 iLvl 200+ epic trinket --- it would be a fair argument in that situation... if it were possible for some dpser to have such a horrible trinket so far into the game...)

just remember people.... if you're the raid leader and have a master looter system that is not purely based on rolls, try to give the item to someone who isn't screaming about it being best for their class unless nobody else can actually use the thing. selfish people take what they can and give next to nothing back. why should they get anything if they don't give anything back? LOL

-this post made by some random person who bothered to make an account here just to flame the people who insist that their class is the most deserving of an item.

Kommentar von 357115

This is an awesome trinket hunters! 108 intellect will increase my attack power by 108! And on top of that, when the 850 SP procs, my dragon hawk pet thing will do more damage with its fire breath!

Kommentar von akent

I beg the differ, MY <class> is the one that need it the most, all the <random other class> taking it are just hampering the guild's progress, as well as humankind progress by depriving it from the guild <my class>

Kommentar von 88597

According to Rawr, for myself as an arcane mage, this is the highest dps trinket currently available. It seems strange to see this as the case for an int trinket, but when you take into account the spell power, crit, mana regen (from replenishment), and increased mana pool along with the potential to use a higher dps rotation as arcane, I guess it adds up. The huge spell power increase from the proc effect is also likely one of the biggest reasons this rates so high.

That being said, I don't think this would be that great for any non-arcane mage.

Kommentar von Enquillion

This would be the most obvious Pandora that could be referenced by the item's name.

In Greek mythology, Pandora was the first woman. As Hesiod related it, each god helped create her by giving her unique gifts. Zeus ordered Hephaestus to mould her out of Earth as part of the punishment of mankind for Prometheus' theft of the secret of fire, and all the gods joined in offering this "beautiful evil" seductive gifts. Her other name, inscribed against her figure on a white-ground kylix in the British Museum (illustration, right), is Anesidora, "she who sends up gifts." According to the myth, Pandora opened a jar (pithos) in modern accounts referred to as "Pandora's box", releasing all the evils of mankind— although the particular evils are not specified in detail — leaving only Hope inside once she had closed it again. She might have opened the jar out of simple curiosity and not as a malicious act.

Though, I still can't really make a connection.

Kommentar von 362635

Shadow priest here to respond to the DPS above who are claiming this trinket is somehow good for DPS casters.

No.

It isn't.

If you roll against a healer for this, you fail hard.

Kommentar von Garysan

I don't wanna bring up itemizing for classes, and the "Who they're better for" argument. All I'm gonna point out, is that intellect is the best attribute for a holy paladin. If any other classes can argue that the same applies to them, then I would appreciate the feedback.

Kommentar von 31389

Well... According to the arcane thread on the EJ forums and accoring to Rawr and some other dps calculators, this trinket is a best in slot for arcane mages.

http://elitistjerks.com/f75/t42876-arcane_thread

It makes sense when you think about it. Arcane mages run through mana faster than any other class, so 108 int (124 int with arcane mind) is nothing to laugh at. Also, with mind mastery and arcane mind, it's a passive 18 dmg, also useful. The int also provides a passive 35 crit rating or 0.75% crit chance. Then, of course, there is the proc for 850 spell power, which is just amazing.

Before you make blanket statements about an item "not being good for dps", actually take into account that you might not know everything about all dps classes and do some research.

Kommentar von 256123

This trinket + Darkmoon Card: Greatness will give some insane numbers if they proc at the same time, especially for a holy paladin. I'm not saying that the trinket is best for them, I'm just using them as examples.

The combination in itself will give 198 intellect untalented. With 5/5 Divine Intellect, that shoots up to 227.7 intellect. If greatness procs, it will increase the untalented to 498 intellect and the talented to 572.7 intellect. Now best case scenario is that they both proc at the same time and the paladin has 5/5 Divine Intellect and 5/5 Holy Guidance. That 572.7 intellect will supply 114.54 spellpower. That makes for a grand total of 964.54 spellpower and 572.7 intellect from just two slots. Granted you might have to be pretty lucky for this to work but still... And this isn't even counting kings. If it was counting kings, the numbers would be around 629.97 intellect and 975.994 spellpower total if I did my math correctly. Either way this is a great trinket.

Kommentar von Vashi

Here are the numbers for a Resto Shaman with kings using this over a 5 minute fight.

Pandora's Plea = 108 Int and 751 SP for 10 seconds every 45 seconds (Best case scenario with the assumption of a 45 second ICD)

108 Int x 1.1(Ancestral Knowledge) x 1.1(Blessing of Kings) = 130.68 int.
130.68 x 15(mana per int) = 1960.2 mana

1960.2 / 60 (60 is the number of 5 second intervals over a 5 minute fight) = 32.67 mp5
1960.2 x 0.0125 (100% uptime of replenishment) = 19.602 Mp5
1960.2 x 0.24 / 60 (one use of Mana Tide Totem unglyphed over a 5 minute fight) = 7.8408 mp5

32.67 + 19.602 + 7.8408 = 60.1128mp5

108 Int x 1.1(Ancestral Knowledge) x 1.1(Blessing of Kings) = 130.68 int.
130.68 x 0.006 (rough equivalence of Int per crit percent) = 0.784% Spell Crit

108 Int x 1.1(Ancestral Knowledge) x 1.1(Blessing of Kings) = 130.68 int.
130.68 x 0.15(Nature's Blessing) = 19.602 Spellpower

751 SP x 10 / 45 =~166.889 (Best Case Scenario)
751 SP x 10 / 60 =~125.167 (More Likely Scenarios)

166.889 + 19.602 = 186.491 Spellpower (Best Case Scenario)
124.167 + 19.602 = 143.769 Spellpower (More likely Scenario)

So Pandora's Plea at Best Case Scenario =~ 186 Spellpower, 60 Mp5, 0.78% Spell crit
Pandora's Plea at a more likely Scenario =~ 144 Spellpower, 60 Mp5, 0.78% Spell crit

Edited for 751 SP update. (For those that don't know, the tooltip was 850)

Kommentar von magoo5225

got this trinket last night off of mimi 25m uld, procs all the time.

this trinket is actually sp by 850 (by the tooltip), however it only procs 751. I put in a gm ticket last night about it and got this:

We are aware of the situation you reported, and we are currently working on a solution. Please check the World of Warcraft website (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com) for future updates and corrections. We appreciate your patience.

so i'm hoping that they will fix it to actually give 850, not 751.

Kommentar von Enquillion

The titans are based off the Norse gods, not the greek ones. Thorim = Thor, Loken = Loki, Freya = Freya, etc. It's not just the names that are similar, their personalities and interactions match pretty well too.

Spawnofmoose is speaking of the Pantheon, not the Titans of Azeroth. The Pantheon has little Freyas and Thorims on every world they've shaped.

Now, if you can prove to us that the Titans of the Pantheon are obviously based off Norse mythology and definitely not Greek, then we both stand corrected, but WoWWiki speculation indicates they could be based off either or both, and the name allusions are hardly as direct.

It's really cute to rate me down without presenting a counter argument, I know.

Kommentar von 299743

Being a healer, I kind of wish the extra spellpower came from a "on use" rather than a proc effect. If it was on use, it could be timed for burst damage like frozen blows or tantrums, but since it's a proc, it usually just contributes to overheal unless you're very very lucky.

The huge amount of int makes up for this though. And even if you're not a class that gets some secondary benefit from int, I still recommend all casters picking this up for Vezax, especially on Vezax hard mode, it's godly.

Kommentar von 408473

Totally NOT a hunter trinket.

Kommentar von 28576

Assuming it has a 45 sec CD, this trinket has an uptime of 22.22% and gives a passive 188.88 SP (these are rough estimates since it all depends on how fast the ability procs again after the CD is up).

Kommentar von guardian84

I had just gotten this last night as a Holy Paladin, and tbh, it's not right to claim that caster DPS has more rights to this trinket than healers. If you're talking abt a trinket with hit rating and procs for spellpower then yes, it's obviously a caster DPS trinket.

For this trinket, both the procs and the +108int works fine for both healers and casters alike. If you're arguing over a +22sp increase for arcane mages compared to healers(refer to doriko's previous post), then maybe you're at the wrong part of the world all these while.

Like Dremo said, there are way better DPS trinkets out there that can significantly boost your DPS than a mere additional +25sp would.

So who's being greedy now? Be fair. This is a caster AND healer trinket, definitely. Both have equal rights to roll for them.

EDIT: With the new changes to Beacon and Sacred Shield+FoL, the additional SP proc will nt necessary result in overheal, as the HoT from FoL will heal for the full amount of FoL over 12 secs, and Beacon will now accept overheals as well.

Kommentar von 125795

Your spells have a chance to increase your spell power by 751 for 10 sec(10%proc)
45sec internal CD
A druid with 1sec GCD will have to cast 10 times to get a proc, thats 55sec on average.
751sp for 10sec every 55sec = 136.5 passive spellpower

108intellect = 1620mana(if in a 300sec fight = 27mp5)

So to sum it up:
136.5spellpower
27mp5(if in a 5min fight)

MP5 trinkets for druids(sorted by mp5 ofc):
250mp5 Spark of Hope +20.5 spellpower
80mp5 Soul Preserver +75 spellpower
75mp5 Darkmoon Card: Greatness +39 spellpower
72mp5 Figurine - Sapphire Owl
70mp5 Darkmoon Card: Blue Dragon
70mp5 Majestic Dragon Figurine +37spellpower
69mp5 Living Ice Crystals
67mp5 Tears of the Vanquished
66mp5 Show of Faith +140 spellpower
60mp5 Spark of Life +73 haste rating
57mp5 Binding Light +68 spellpower
55mp5 Spirit-World Glass +29 spellpower
54mp5 Energy Siphon +68 spellpower
53mp5 Sif's Remembrance +110spellpower
39mp5 Valonforth's Remembrance +10 spellpower
36mp5 Winged Talisman +58 spellpower
34mp5 Je'Tze's Bell +106 spellpower
33mp5 Soul of the Dead +2% crit
32mp5 Talisman of Resurgence +100 spellpower
29mp5 Talisman of Troll Divinity +15 spellpower
28mp5 Cannoneer's Morale +47 spellpower
27mp5 Pandora's Plea +136 spellpower
26mp5 Memento of Tyrande +62 spellpower
25mp5 Darkmoon Card: Illusion +100 spellpower
21mp5 Bangle of Endless Blessings +5 spellpower
20mp5 Forethought Talisman +111 spellpower
12mp5 Futuresight Rune +68 spellpower

Kommentar von 125795

Spellpower trinkets for druids:
200 spellpower Illustration of the Dragon Soul
140 spellpower Show of Faith +66mp5
136 spellpower Pandora's Plea +27mp5
125 spellpower Eye of the Broodmother +1.9%crit
111 spellpower Forethought Talisman +20mp5
111 spellpower Titan-Forged Rune of Audacity
110 spellpower Sif's Remembrance +53mp5
106 spellpower Je'Tze's Bell +34mp5
100 spellpower Darkmoon Card: Illusion +25mp5
100 spellpower Talisman of Resurgence +32mp5
98 spellpower Embrace of the Spider +92haste rating
98 spellpower The Egg of Mortal Essence +92haste rating
93 spellpower Forge Ember +1.59%crit
75 spellpower Soul Preserver +80mp5
68 spellpower Binding Light +57mp5
68 spellpower Energy Siphon +54mp5
68 spellpower Futuresight Rune +12mp5
63 spellpower Redeemer's Alchemist Stone
62 spellpower Memento of Tyrande +26mp5
59 spellpower Mercurial Alchemist Stone +50haste rating
58 spellpower Winged Talisman +36mp5

Kommentar von 535137

hmm... nobody mentioned it... but this is a great... extremely great trinket for PVP... for 2 classes that would benefit more from it... Discipline priests and holy paladins...

So... this trinket procs and:
Disci priest: https://www.wowhead.com/wotlk/spell=52800

Holy paladins: https://www.wowhead.com/wotlk/spell=53601 "paladins sacred shield absorbs damage equal to spellpower"

Nothing more to say here =D

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+114 Intelligenz

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Anlegen: Eure Zauber haben eine Chance, Eure Zaubermacht 10 sec lang um 794 zu erhöhen. (Procchance: 10%, 45s Abklingzeit)

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