Kommentare

Kommentar von 591747

So, 10 man raiding=258 item and 25 man raiding=271 item?

Kommentar von 308358

I see several people forget or are not aware of the fact that Armor Penetration is 2nd highest stat for Unholy/sub-blood and 3rd for Unholy/sub-frost after reaching main-hand hit cap.

Even to this day I see people state on different forums, or ingame chat, that ArP is one of the least beneficial stat for unholy DK. This isn't only inaccurate, its just misleading and false information.
Many still believe ArP to be a warrior, MM hunter or blood DK stat (usual the feral dps druid is forgotten as well).

For more info, please visit http://elitistjerks.com/f72/t72364-unholy_dps_3_3_5_cataclysm_naturally/

This trinket and/or its ilvl 284 equivalent will be BiS for any DK dps build combined up with DBW hm version.

Kommentar von Rilgon

I'll go on to say that there are more trinkets with ArP then not

Do you just mean this raid tier? Because if not, that's such a ridiculously erroneous statement.

And the only class that could reliably make the argument that ArPen is bad for them is Enhancement Shaman and Mutilate Rogues. Even Retribution Paladins have a very sizeable amount of pure physical damage, especially once they go 2p T10 and have a dramatic upswing in Divine Storm's contribution as a percentage of total DPS.

ArPen is significantly better for a Ret Paladin than Haste is for any spec of Hunter (read: Haste is worse than INTELLECT for Hunters).

Kommentar von Typhron

Do you just mean this raid tier?

In general, actually. When Blizzard has added trinkets that are rather accessible, although having an asinine drop rate, they've had ArP on them. Compounding this with other trinkets from raid content (which is pretty even) and you get the imbalance I'm implying. The current raid tier isn't so bad.

Even Retribution Paladins have a very sizeable amount of pure physical damage, especially once they go 2p T10 and have a dramatic upswing in Divine Storm's contribution as a percentage of total DPS.

Divine Storm, Crusader Strike, and a paladin's auto-attack is not all a retter does. Because of that most of the bonus from ArP goes unnoticed and is unwarranted. At least if you're reading a guide like this one.

The Tier 10 2 piece bonus is both effective and fun ('fun' meaning AMAZING & AWESOME and WHY ISN'T THIS A FEATURE) but it doesn't make a Ret stack ArP to make their Divine Storms hit harder (mong other things). It's like, as you say, a MM Hunter stacking Haste. The same points could be allocated to another stat for greater effect due to poor scaling.

We won't go into Enhancement Shamans and ArP. The short version of that conversation would be "WHAT DO"

Sadly, if they added a stat that everyone could use (I'm looking at you Critical Strike Rating) it would just be Whispering Fanged Skull 1.1. Which is why it is still a good, if not class situational, trinket.

Kommentar von InorganicMatter

Hello Armor Pen hard cap!

(Also, inb4 Blizz announces a melee trinket catering to the QQ'ing pallies/shaman/mut.rogues.)

Kommentar von 126811

this will be just like Wille des Todesbringers, everyone will roll on it.

Kommentar von Drague

As a combat rogue, this trinket is truely a beast! Combine it with Wille des Todesbringers and you got yourself one hardhitting #$%^tail of trinkets. Perhaps it will be possible to reach hard cap with armor pen with this thing :)

Kommentar von 532081

You'll probably see this ninja'd so many times.. just like dbw.

Kommentar von 549667

Wow, I so want to wear this with DBW for harcap ArP on my kitty, can't wait to get rid of herkuml anyway.

This is an astounding trinket, and while i'm sorry to the classes that can't use ArP, the only ones that really suffer, as said above, are enhancement and mut, which both LOVE haste, and herkuml is the easiest high ilvl melee trinket to get, so it may not be totally fair, but there's definitely some balance. also, both of those classes are likely to get stuck with a hit or exp trinket in their second slot due to their high requirement and benefit of those stats.

Kommentar von 491780

Will be nice to be able to gem agility again as an MM hunter, using this and DBW, in before the dps.

Kommentar von 606298

Warriors will drool over this as they drool over deathbringer's will. because the proc is insane, and fits perfectly by DBW, they can drop 8 arp gems for str gems. more than worth it to get for a warrior

Kommentar von butcher098

stats wise it just seems to be a colossal upgrade of Banner of Victory from reg ToC, pretty much same concept. Basic stat is armor pen, chance on hit increases Attack Power for 15seconds.

Kommentar von 79984

ArPen is significantly better for a Ret Paladin than Haste is for any spec of Hunter (read: Haste is worse than INTELLECT for Hunters).

At a certain point with high-end marks gear, 1 haste actually becomes better than both 1 int and 1 attack power. And of course, 1 int is always better than 1 attack power because of Careful Aim.

So in reality, ArP is probably significantly WORSE for a ret pally than haste is for a geared marks hunter.

Kommentar von hntd

For lazy people, the proc rate is 35%, the ICD is not yet known.

Kommentar von Marmo

Now i can't say nothing more than: WoW... DBW HC + Sharpened Twilight Scale = 330 ArP Rating on equip... For hunt / warr / rogue this will be the best combo trinkets. :)

Kommentar von 466710

*** If this Proc's like WFS it will definatly be a replacement for some ArP class (my main is a combat rogue) ecspecially for those of us crit capping.
If anyone from PTR has gotten this and taken the time to figure it's proc rate, it would be awsome if you could post something here.

Kommentar von 607780

Normal STS (ilvl 271)

Proc 1304 AP
164 Arpen

Expected STS (ilvl 284 ?)

Proc 1472 AP according to Item - Chamber of Aspects 25 Heroic Melee Trinket
(1472/1304) x164 = 184,0 Arpen

Thats the expected stat on STS, if my math is right

PS : just can't wait to get the DBW - STS combo on my kitty !

Kommentar von Meebo

While it's not the best optimised trinket for some classes the Heroic version of this is an upgrade for Ret Paladins over the aging Death's Choice. Any Ret worth their salt will only bother with the Heroic version; provided they're in a decent raiding guild or has the gold to buy it from one, so expect competition on it alone.

Kommentar von Rilgon

So in reality, ArP is probably significantly WORSE for a ret pally than haste is for a geared marks hunter.

The reality in which Haste effects less of our DPS (Auto) than ArPen effects of a Ret's DPS? (Auto, Divine Storm, Crusader Strike)?

Kommentar von 361624

Is it just me, or does anyone else find it odd that Blizz would introduce a trinket with ArP on it now? They've already stated that ArP will be removed from gear and converted to something else.

Does this mean they are re-thnking the removal of ArP from gear?
Or was this something that they had already designed WAY back before they decided to remove ArP?

Don't get me wrong, it's a sweet trinket, I just think it's strange that an item of this level is being introduced now, only to be edited when Cataclysm comes out.

So I guess my point is that this is a trinket who's value seems like it will decrease rapidly after cata comes out.

Kommentar von 539416

Just to put another spin on this if it has greater than 45 sec ICD this trinket will be as crap as Needle-Encrusted Scorpion for uptime, and I'll stick with H DBW + H DV (frost dk)

Kommentar von 498441

This trinket truly is a godsend for MM Hunters... In fact with the gear set I currently have, replacing my other trinket (next to DBW) with this will actually put me well over the ArP cap... That leaves room for itemization in the other areas, making this trinket a bridge, so to speak, to so many new approaches to being a Hunter.

Kommentar von 534473

This will most likely replace Deathbringer's Will as a BiS trinket for the classes who previously had Deathbringer's Will as the BiS trinket (although using them together will still yield the best results). I am assuming that the ICD is 45 seconds in this calculation, which would make a lot of sense.

Example: Fury warrior, with a 1.2 strength multiplier from berserker stance and a further 1.1 multiplier from BoK.

DB Will - 27% uptime (approx)
600 strength proc (most beneficial proc) = 1584 AP
1584 x 27% = 427.68*

Twilight Shard - 31% uptime (approx)
1304 AP proc
1304 x 31% = 404.24

*However, obviously deathbringer's will procs haste 1/3 of the time, which is not as valuable as strength or crit (we will assume in this calculation that crit has a very similar value to strength for dps increase). If the haste proc is only 90% as valuable as the other two procs and has a 1/3 chance to occur, then the value of the proc should be reduced to 96.6% of the original value, which is

96.6% x 427.68 = 413.14

Pretty close overall. However for fury warriors inparticular the deathbringer will procs are quite well timed with death wish (30 seconds once every 110ish seconds), which may even out the difference. This is still quite a rough calculation of course.

Seems like Paladins will be a little disappointed with the new loot. Out of the five different plate dps viable pieces of loot, four of them have armor penetration on them! It is brilliant for warriors on the other hand, because armor pen capping is a neccesity at higher gear levels and these new loot pieces are an *excellent* way to discard the unwanted haste, hit and expertise rating on ICC gear to give a lot more room for strength and crit gemming instead of armor pen gemming. The heroic version of this trinket alone frees up a whopping 8/9 armor pen gem slots for strength/crit. I played around a bit with the profiler prior to this, and while it was possible to hard cap ArP without using gear below level 270, it meant losing out on many yellow socket bonuses, which is a pain.

The funny thing about the paladin tier 10 2 part set - True, the increased use of divine storm increases the value of ArP, but surely it also increases the value of haste as well, because more haste = more melee attacks = more cooldown resets, although not having a paladin, I'm no expert on this matter.

Kommentar von Galbrei

Is it possible to wear that and the heroic version at the same time? If it is, that will pimp my rogue's dps big time!

Kommentar von 178266

Well, you can only know for sure if it blows something out of the water of perhaps blows itself, when you know the proc rate ...

I'd doubt it extremely that it will be better than the ICC25 trinkets. Especially as Blizzard indicated they wanted it to be on average below ICC levels ...

So first proc results, then we can judge ...

Where are you getting that kind of info from? Blizzard has been repeatedly saying Ruby Sanctum's gear was meant to be Lich King level, nowhere did they say anything about wanting them to be inferior to Icecrown gear.

Furthermore, to the one who said that this trinket is better than the heroic Whispering Fanged Skull for Ret Paladins, a small correction: Either version of this trinket is better than its corresponding version of the Skull, that is, the normal version is superior to the normal WFS but weaker than the heroic version, and the heroic version of the Scale is better than all of them.

Kommentar von 146856

But u can wear DBW and this together though.

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