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Kommentar von Bloodsword

A seriously awesome talent. A 'free' magic and bleed cleanse would mean that rogues would finally have a way to remove any and all debuffs that would otherwise prevent them from entering stealth. It would also remove any magic roots, such as frost nova or roots; combine this with CoS, and classes such as mages, locks and priests, would have very little chance to defeat a such a rogue.

The other part of this talent is not quite as awesome but is still quite good in its own right; giving a 15% damage increase when fully stacked.

Kommentar von 12160

I'm excited about speccing my rogue mutilate again. This seems like an awesome talent. Great for pvp, and great for pve, too. Perhaps this will also give mutilate a much needed bost in mobility for pvp, as rogues will be able to eat things like frost nova.

Kommentar von Archdmon

Unkitability, safer stealthing and damage boost, this is Blizz's answer to Rogue's being pigeon holed into Sub due to mobility issues in PvP.

Kommentar von 176329

ah, Archdmon, you didn't read it properly. we rogues will still be kite-able. it can only remove magic, and "bleed" effects, not physical effects. therefore, things like wingclip will still work

Kommentar von Ixio

Just remeber that as awsome as this talent looks, you won't be spamming it. ( PvP wise )

A Rogue spamming this is doing no damage and the buff time is decreasing.

( Thought i'd post just incase some think it's the end of world, giving Rogues this talent ;)

Kommentar von 178955

Seeing the tooltip mention enrage confuses me a bit. So I point this question towards all beta testers, does this ability work like Death Wish and Berserker Rage, as in you can use it to break fear?

Kommentar von 180432

Finally warlocks can smack unstable affliction dispells in rogues faces. ;-)
I wonder if there's going to be a cooldown or if silence effects would work. Even with getting hit by the UA dispell effect it would still be an incredible skill to have.

Kommentar von 103436

A Rogue spamming this is doing no damage and the buff time is decreasing.

I totally agree. If a rogue is spamming this to get the damage up on a Mutilate comming out of the whole then its not going to be that great in PvP due to the fact you dont have time to wait on energy to build up to use it in time.. Unless the player is AFK that is..

IDK about this tallent.. I spent most of the time after BC was released being a Mutilate rogue.. This just doesnt seem like a 51 point tallent.. Maybe if they buff it to 10/20/30 or 11/22/33 damage boost to mutilate.. Then maybe it will help.

Also if the LK Expansion was anything like the BC was to the original wow, expect most classes in pvp gear to be walking around with 18000-20000 Health. 15% boost on a already hurting tallent (Mutialte, due to Resilence) isnt going to help kill your apponent. Maybe effective in PvE.. But not going to help in PvP.. IMHO..

Exo..

Kommentar von 42591

this is the most op ability ever...

only costs 30 energy to remove a dot / bleed / etc..

........

Kommentar von 191409

Well, sub depends on if youre sticking with hemo or going daggers. Blizz seems to be pushing for rogue pvp to go back to daggers with Slaughter from the Shadows (-15 energy cost to ambush and backstab) and waylay (cripples opponents attack speed and movement speed on ambush crits). However resilience is here to stay, and this severely hurts rogues who rely on critting solely to kill their target. The BC exp only gave a boost of 5K hp from what it was at 60. wars and locks and a few others who put sta before any other stat in gems and enchants might have more, but 5K hp was the average amount at 60 and its at about 11K now. I think if blizz averages about as much as they did when BC came out, youll have around 16K at L80. Give or take 500.

So us rogues have to face the fact relying on huge crits is old school. Survivability and staying on your target's ass is THE MOST important part of rogue pvp now. And Hunger for Blood just made it impossible for a competent rogue not to do so. Warriors are melee, so hamstring isnt all that bad if you can cripple poison them first.

Also, rogues have an instant disarm ability now call dismantle. Which removes ALL carried equipment for TEN SECONDS. No more hunters wing clipping or concussive shooting you. All they can do is set a frost trap and hope they can get away before beastial wrath ends.

Dont forget the other bonuses blizz has given assasination. We can now xfer our poisons onto anyone who heals our target. We can now put wound poison back on our OH, mind numbing on our MH, and wound will apply crippling also. Thats a huge druid ^&*!er. Lets see how well they can dot when theyre working double time trying to remove our improved poisons and what little HoTs are on them will be reduced by 50%. Since they can heal through stuns, we can slap on alot of bleed damage and let it destroy what little heals they can get through.

I can see the majority of rogues going assasination if these talents stay the way they are. Sub might be useful with a destro lock in arenas. Pop alot of huge crits on someone at once with shadow dance and 5-6 ambushes.

Kommentar von Serathis

This talent seems to be waaaaaaaaay OP compared to the other ultimate talents for rogues, especially murder spree. Do you get the damage buff if you use it to remove a bleed or magical effect?

Kommentar von 191409

yes you still do. What you would do with assasination is open with cheap shot. dismantle if theyre warriors, paladins, or hunters or other rogues. if at any time they bleed or magically impair you, use hunger for blood. once you have 3 ranks on it or less if they only bleed, you would kidney shot and hit em with two mutilates at 44% increased dmg from imp kidney shot, hunger for blood, and find weaknesses. If theyre a clothie you may want to vanish, cold blood and insta crit em with ambush.

its a big change from hemo because you need more strategy than spaming hemo. it also requires more patience and timing, but i think ultimately it will be balanced with the other stuff people are getting. Not to mention rogues will need this because theyre not getting much of an upgrade to damage. Just more mobility.

Kommentar von 191409

and murder spree is for pve only. just another CD for us to use on mobs and bosses like blade flurry and adrenaline rush. the nice pve talent is the 25% bonus to melee white crit dmg.

Kommentar von 195864

Before crying that the talent is overpowered keep in mind that atm on the latest build of the beta 8788 it only refunds the energy if it removes both a magic and a bleed effect. Spamming this against a dot class is useless.

Kommentar von 43530

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/7/9336456598-rogue-update.html

Upcoming change for HfB:

- Hunger for Blood: Now removes any harmful physical effect instead of Bleed or Magic effects. Bleed effects will still be removed (as all are physical) as well as effects like Mortal Strike, Aimed Shot, Expose Armor etc…

Kommentar von Corbon

Ridiculously overpowered in its current form. Since it's spammable, you won't have to worry about any nasty Warrior debuffs anymore. Will probably get a general CD, like CloS.

Kommentar von BoJlk

Gamnin Blue post update on the skill.

Hunger for Blood: Now removes any harmful physical effect instead of Bleed or Magic effects. Bleed effects will still be removed (as all are physical) as well as effects like Mortal Strike, Aimed Shot, Expose Armor etc…

Kommentar von 18754

Can a beta tester please confirm the behaviour of this a little more.

It costs 30 energy, has 0 cooldown (other than GCD I would imagine), and can stack up to 3 times to give a buff of 15% damage increase.

So, for 90 energy you get a 15% damage increase for 10 seconds.

My question is - what happens if you re-apply with 1 second to go? Does it re-stack to 3 but for another 10 seconds?

Kommentar von 46602

Can any beta tester try to use it while in stealth? Would be awesome to stack it 3 times and then land realy heavy blow.

Kommentar von 201585

HfB now last for a duration of 30secs, rofl and mutilate won't require being behind the target!

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/7/9336456598-rogue-update.html for the mutilate change

And

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/7/9336521473-rogue-update-part-2.html for HfB and the newest changes

I think OP what do you think?

Kommentar von RobertM

I'm wondering when, in PvE, I will have 90 energy to blow on getting the DPS buff from this ability, nevermind the GCD. Are we supposed to keep a 3-stack of this up at all times, hitting it every 30 seconds in PvE?

As a former Combat-Dagger rogue who's looking forward to specing Mutilate in WotLK for PvE, I can't say I'm very excited about this talent. Definitely no replacement for Adrenaline Rush or Blade Flurry for boss DPS, it seems. Or maybe I'm just missing something. It seems very situational for PvE with its physical debuff removal, and difficult to work into a DPS rotation. If Mutilate-spec is as "energy starved" as Combat-Daggers is (and I hear it is), the energy consumption of this ability will be awkward, if it's to be kept up all the time in PvE.

Kommentar von testiclaw

Currently removes Recently Bandaged and healing penalty from the Orc racial Blood Fury.

Kommentar von 206935

Hmm... so does HFB remove only 1 phisycal effect, multiple effects or all phisical affects on you?

Kommentar von 78426

What I first thought of when I looked at this talent is... "it has no combat requirement." That may sound odd, but it somewhat nullifies the energy requirement if you can stack it 3 times before the boss fight even begins so all you have to do is use 30 energy (possibly, depends on if the fight has physical debuffs) every 30 seconds or so to refresh it. I assume rogues in beta are already doing things like this?

But one thing I'm a little curious about, although I admit that it's a bit silly... will Hunger for Blood remove "other" physical debuffs like The Baron's Ultimatum, which is listed as a Physical debuff? I mean, obviously the debuff doesn't do much but serve as a timer; however, it'd be interesting to see if something like that could serve as a free Hunger for Blood renewal ;).

Kommentar von Dredg

Ugh, why did they have to change it? I feel like every time I look at the Assassination tree, something gets nerfed.

Kommentar von 67478

Does using this ability break stealth?

Kommentar von 101192

right now its just a PVE orientated spec. Its not worth taking anymore over all the goodies in the subtlety three, mutilate/preparation the way to go? should be getting some buffs soon i think. removing 1 bleed at cost of 30 energy which then gives 15 back, note if bleed is removed and increases damage by 3% can stack to 9% worth it over cooldown spamming? NEVER.
either give back removal of physical effect, or now yet again, let us remove magic and skip on the mortal strike debuffs, because skipping those with a button press really was overpowered. but in this state its generally worthless, especially when u face warriors who say bloodspatter.

Kommentar von Deathadder99

This move is awesome. Spam it in stealth in PvP for an extra 9% damage for 30 sec when you open. Sap you opponent, wait on energy, rebuff HfB, attack. The extra bleed dispell is a nice added bonus.

Edit:With overkill its 20 energy in stealth

Kommentar von 126853

No. Can be used while stealthed.

Kommentar von Merowlin

I wouldnt call it a SnD replacement at all. With Cut to the Chase, you are able to keep both going at the same time.

What he means is that SnD isn't part of the cycle anymore since it's up at all times, to why this talent is a replacement in the rotation/cycle.

Kommentar von Mirar

This skill is an interesting plus to our arsenal of tools.

Pve wise, its extra butter for dps.
And how would the bleed effect be implied in PVE cases? Well, persay the trolls in ZA that occasionally throw a bleed debuff on ya. I'm sure there'll be WOTLK raid mobs that'll do the same.

-or-

Its a Pvp p;ssed-at-gay-dual-2h-warrior skill. So okay, a warrior charges and bitch-slaps you. Then you use this to drop off the bleed effects, look puffed and p;ssed (Enrage = larger size and red hands ya?) at any warriors that touches you. And soon run free with 50% duration speed debuffs.
~It was a funny idea anyway~

Anyway, you wouldn't use this too often in pvp. Unless to maybe drop off the bleed when its a heavy bleed effect on you, like a full rupture or garrote on you. A bit costly, especially with the nerfs now.

Kommentar von Phurox

IMO this talent is not better than Prep.

Its a good DPS increase, but then again, Prep is way more important.

(PvP talk)

Kommentar von 228334

In PvE, this talent is A.M.A.Z.ING!

1) It can be used in stealth and does not break stealth.
2) Once at full stack, only 1 application every 30 seconds is needed to refresh itself.

What the first point mean is that, the rogue can buff himself/herself up by spamming it to full stack of it before the tank engages the boss, and still gain back the energy, making it "cost-free".

With Cut to the Chase, Assassination rogues will no longer be spending energy on Slice'n'Dice after the first use of it(unless they have their Eviscerate or Envenom missed or dodged when the duration of Slice'n'Dice is about to be over). So, they can be spending the energy that was supposed to be used on Slice'n'Dice on Hunger For Blood.

In the past, to refresh (untalented)Slice'n'Dice, one would have to spend 25 energy every 21 seconds.
Now, to refresh Hunger For Blood, one would have to spend 30 Energy every 30 seconds.

From it, we can see that, 1 Energy spent in Hunger For Blood would yield 1 second whereas 1 Energy spent in the untalented Slice'n'Dice would mean less than 1 second of effectiveness.
This may not be important to level 70 raiders, as I supposed all rogues will spec into Improved Slice'n'Dice. However, this will make the difference for leveling rogues who can't have enough points to spend on Improved Slice'n'Dice, yet.

Hope it helps.

Kommentar von Carlotta

I have a question since I have not tried it yet, does HfB trigger GCD?

Kommentar von 193445

This is a decent talent.

Say you spend the 90 energy to get it stacked up to 3 times, alotting a 9% dps increase.

Killing Spree:
0 Energy
Instant Cast
Can save you from potentially deadly situations as you blink around the screen.

Possible (10) white damage hits.
As a level 70 rogue:
MH has 572-689 damage. (Avg = 630.5)
OH has 375-431 damage. (Avg = 403)
630.5 x 5 hits for main hand = 3152 white text damage (not counting crits)
403 x 5 hits for off hand = 2015 white text damage (again not counting crits)
This gives us 5167 damage over 2.5 seconds.
5167 / 120 (cooldown) 43.0 dps (Not counting crits)

Hunger For Blood:
30 (15) Energy
Instant Cast
Can save you from potentially deadly situations (bleed effects stacked from warriors)
Can basically have this up for ever.
As a rogue with an average of 1300 dps raid, I can expect to see a 101 dps increase counting crits

Now, we can't expect the crits I didn't count from Killing Spree to make up for the overall dps loss. Soloing, Killing Spree is better. PVP, Killing Spree is arguably better. As Hunger For Blood was nerfed and no longer takes off magic effects, its use is basically only for warriors.
Mutilate is an under powered ability so I say either go sword spec or sub.

Kommentar von 50009

In terms of pvp this talent should be skipped. It would only be good for taking off a bleed or for your opener. I find it improbable that a rogue will be keeping this ability refreshed in the middle of a pvp situation.

"Mutilate is an under powered ability so I say either go sword spec or sub."

This statement couldn't be more wrong. In pvp Mutilate has just as much (if not more) burst damage than an Ambush rogue.

In PvE a HfB mutilate rogue is doing comparable (if not more) dps compared to a combat rogue.

And as for leveling, I was able to literally 3 shot mobs (double mutilate-eviscerate-dead) in lvl 70 honor pvp gear from 70-80.

Is HfB worth it? Yes if you plan on PvEing. No if you plan on PvPing. Hope this helps out.

Kommentar von 266758

IDK if I'm impressed with this one, running a basic mutilate PvE spec. Sure while the 9% Damage/DPS increase sounds nice on the surface I found that I actually lost 500ish DPS using it. Instead of having the energy to throw a Mutilate or Eviserate I was recharging HFB.

Patchwork with HFB 1300 DPS

Grobulus w/o HFB 1800 DPS

Maybe my I'm trying to push too many combos (S&D, Rupture, Eviserate, and HFB), idk. I'm going to experiment with it further by seeing what set of combination of finishing moves work best together, but this one's futrue doesn't look promising.

Edit: Looking at riboflavin's post above I guess I could see the advantage in a shorter fight right away. However durring long Raid/Heroic boss fights it may not be the thing to use. Again, I hope to have a definative answer soon...

Kommentar von 170073

Considering its easy and fast to stack the 3 pile and considering you do it early so you have 100% energy when the action starts.

With Find Weakness and Murder you get a 19% increase to all your abilities, 13% for white damage.

Kommentar von 194903

except that you gotta watch your threat, along with your hp in the 25 man patchwerk...:P

Kommentar von frmorrison

This is buffed in 3.1 patch to:

Hunger for Blood – instead of a self-buff, this ability can only be used when there is a bleed effect on the target. However, it has no stacks and grants a 15% damage bonus.

Less baby-sitting and 6% more damage!

Kommentar von 252897

Rogue Updates from 3.1.0 notes by Eyonix (subject to change):

* Hunger for Blood – instead of a self-buff, this ability can only be used when there is a bleed effect on the target. However, it has no stacks and grants a 15% damage bonus.
* Adrenaline Rush – the cooldown on this ability has been lowered.
* Lightning Reflexes – reduced to 3 ranks. In addition to 2/4/6% dodge, this talent now also grants 4/7/10% passive melee haste.
* Killing Spree – while this ability is active, the rogue does 20% additional damage.
* Savage Combat – now causes 2/4% physical damage done.
* Mace Specialization – this talent now grants haste in addition to armor penetration.

Kommentar von 117477

Can anyone clarify if with the new patch it can only be used if a bleed is on you? Thats sort of what it sounded like with the new changes:

Hunger for Blood – instead of a self-buff, this ability can only be used when there is a bleed effect on the target. However, it has no stacks and grants a 15% damage bonus.

Does it mean in addition to being a damage buff for yourself you can buff a party member? I'm hoping this is the case because at the moment most rogues don't even bother with it.

Kommentar von 259792

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=14910582358&pageNo=2#20

The idea with Hunger for Blood is you will probably have bleeds available from other classes in a raid setting (and even if you didn't you can add them yourself).

Seems like it will require a bleed on your target, not yourself, and it won't have to be one of your own bleeds.

Kommentar von Akatash

As of Patch 3.0.9 Hunger for Blood gives you 5% more damage per application up to a total of 15% more damage. You don't have to be affected by a bleed-effect to use Hunger for blood as previously mentioned.

Kommentar von thething0123

Is anyone else seeing this increase damage by 5% each stack, with a 15% total right now? I think 3.0.9 changed that, and its AWESOME,

at least until 3.1.

Kommentar von 326048

Out of curiosity, could anyone let me know if HfB triggers the global cooldown?

It came to mind due after reading the up and coming change in 3.1 where you might be able to make some nice Garrote > Hunger for Blood Macros so long as it doesnt trigger the GCD (although I very much doubt it )

Kommentar von Darthmrkew

Looks like now HfB's lucky number is 30.
Costs 30 energy
Range 30 yards
Lasts 30 seconds
increased damage 15% ( 15 times 2 is 30 ).

Kommentar von 161172

As of the latest PTR build, this ability now lasts 1 min and costs 15 energy. A sweet buff for Mutilate DPS.

Kommentar von 119179

Does this mean we need to lick our target to trigger this ability? Ewwww.

Kommentar von catheryna

this ability can only be used when there is a bleed effect on the target.

Question for 3.1 - if all bleeds on the target fall off while HfB is active, does HfB drop? i.e. Can HfB only be used (initiated) while a bleed is active, or can it only be active (up) during an active bleed?

Kommentar von 378626

I think people fail to notice the bigger picture of the cahnge of Hunger for blood, it will now be unable to remove bleed effect from yourself. Im quite happy with that since i hate playing as rogue yet enjoy killing them as a cat druid, thhey will now be unable to vanish away from me (happen often on shaman where they run off with Vanish+cloak of shadow)

Kommentar von 430418

seriously, this isn't a 51 pointer talent... no1 is picking it in PVP. gief better assassination end talent PLEASE!

Kommentar von 192185

To activate this ability, your target must be under the effect of any one of the following skills:
Broken down by class, spec, with anything of note.

Rogues:
Assassination
Rupture
Garrote - requires stealth

Druids:
Feral Combat, Cat Form
Rip
Rake
Pounce -
Feral Combat, Bear Form
Lacerate

Warriors:
Arms
Rend
Deep Wounds talented,12 points

Hunters:
Marksmanship
Piercing Shots talented, 40 points -

Pets
Rake - used by cats
Savage Rend - used by raptors
.

The following abilities increase bleed damage; None can activate HfB.
Trauma - Arms Warrior (talent)
Mangle (Bear) - Feral Combat Druid, Bear Form
Mangle (Cat) - Feral Combat Druid, Cat Form
.

Except for Pounce, all abilities apply debuffs of the same name.
17/12/2009 - Added Piercing Shots to the list. Thanks, PikaPika!

Kommentar von Shinja

Hotfixed from 15% increase to 10% in Patch 3.3. And it's somehow logical.

Source: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=21730605184&sid=1

FYI: The "losed" DPS is 4.23% = ( 1.13 / 1.18 - 1) x 100.

Kommentar von Cerobug

Hot fixed again today lowering it base damage to 5%

The base damage bonus from Hunger for Blood has been reduced from 10% to 5%.

Source
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=22418851790&sid=1

Kommentar von 462511

Predicted patch 3.3 notes:

Hunger For Blood damage bonus has been changed to 1%

Kommentar von Modibybob

HfB in 3.3: 15% -> 10% -> 5%.

Apparently rogues are not so hungry for blood anymore.

Kommentar von 128072

Rogues have got the nerf bat on the nuts again :'(

Kommentar von TGRaiden

Going away in Cataclysm, and rogues rejoice.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=25026563354&pageNo=3&sid=1#44

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